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NASkeet
Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2006
Posts: 2958
Location: South Benfleet, Essex, UK
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 Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 11:44 am Post subject: Re: Wheels and tire suggestions? |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| NASkeet wrote: |
| Quote: |
You can get an extra load tire in a 215/16R16 though. Vredestein makes one. The heavily siped threads on the Vredesteins would likely give good traction in most conditions as well. |
I don't think there is a 215/16 R16 tyre, except possibly for a Formula 1 racing car!  |
Sorry, that was a typo. Meant to say 215/65R16, The Tire Rack lists dozens of them and with a 98 load rating they exceed the 97 load rating of the stock 205/70R14 reinforced tires.
I would still be wanting to avoid the short sidewalls of a 65 profile tire if driving off road though. I would think that an ideal tire for these old rigs would be a 225/70R14 or 27/8.5R14 mounted on a 6.5" wide rim with the correct offset. I suspect with the wider rims they would be very stable in the wind without the rim being so wide as to make the bead overly vulnerable to damage for rocks and curbs.
FWIW I was with a friend a couple of weeks ago and he had a 1/4" diameter stick puncture the sidewall on an 8 ply truck tires, so higher ply ratings don't translate into super dependability as is often claimed here. One of the reasons I like the 27/8.5R14 is its 4 ply sidewalls are more heavily built than a typical 8 ply, which is part of the reason why they outweigh a 195r14 by 5 pounds or so. |
For which of the 1968~79 VW Type 2s were the 205/70 R14 tyres considered to be factory-stock, because I don't think that size has ever been available in Great Britain as a commercial-van tyre?
I don't think that the 225/70 R14 or 27/8.5 R14 tyres are likely to be available in Great Britain and I doubt whether the 6.5 x 14 inch wheels with 112 mm PCD are either!
From what I read on The Samba Vanagon forum several years ago, 65-Series tyres on a 6.5 x 16 inch wheel, is the lowest profile recommended on the Syncro for off-road use.
A 215/65 R16C tyre's sidewall is only about 1/4 inch shorter than the sidewall of a 185/80 R14 tyre.
A 195/65 R16C tyre's sidewall is probably about 3/4 inch shorter than the sidewall of a 185/80 R14 tyre.
If I had my pocket calculator with me, I could work is out exactly! 
_________________
Regards.
Nigel A. Skeet
Independent tutor (semi-retired) of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.
Much modified, RHD 1973 VW "1600" Type 2 Westfalia Continental campervan, with the World's only decent, cross-over-arm, SWF pantograph rear-window wiper
Onetime member, plus former Technical Editor & Editor of Transporter Talk magazine
Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club (Great Britain)
http://www.vwt2oc.net |
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nemobuscaptain
Samba Member
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 3874
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50353
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| Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 1:00 pm Post subject: Re: Wheels and tire suggestions? |
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| nemobuscaptain wrote: |
A few years of the late vanagons had 207/70/14 Reimforced (XL).tires. They came on the alloys.
I would assume if they were sturdy enough for a heavier Vanagon, then they would be fine for a bus.
There were some 185R14 reinforced on bay. |
My Multivan came with 205/70R14 Reinforced Michelins and I have used them on my Bay as well. Best all around tires I have run on either, wish I could still get them. Superb handling, nice ride, and 60,000+ mile life. |
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NASkeet
Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2006
Posts: 2958
Location: South Benfleet, Essex, UK
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| Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2021 10:26 am Post subject: Re: Wheels and tire suggestions? |
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| NASkeet wrote: |
| Wildthings wrote: |
| NASkeet wrote: |
| Quote: |
You can get an extra load tire in a 215/16R16 though. Vredestein makes one. The heavily siped threads on the Vredesteins would likely give good traction in most conditions as well. |
I don't think there is a 215/16 R16 tyre, except possibly for a Formula 1 racing car! |
Sorry, that was a typo. Meant to say 215/65R16, The Tire Rack lists dozens of them and with a 98 load rating they exceed the 97 load rating of the stock 205/70R14 reinforced tires.
I would still be wanting to avoid the short sidewalls of a 65 profile tire if driving off road though. I would think that an ideal tire for these old rigs would be a 225/70R14 or 27/8.5R14 mounted on a 6.5" wide rim with the correct offset. I suspect with the wider rims they would be very stable in the wind without the rim being so wide as to make the bead overly vulnerable to damage for rocks and curbs.
FWIW I was with a friend a couple of weeks ago and he had a 1/4" diameter stick puncture the sidewall on an 8 ply truck tires, so higher ply ratings don't translate into super dependability as is often claimed here. One of the reasons I like the 27/8.5R14 is its 4 ply sidewalls are more heavily built than a typical 8 ply, which is part of the reason why they outweigh a 195r14 by 5 pounds or so. |
For which of the 1968~79 VW Type 2s were the 205/70 R14 tyres considered to be factory-stock, because I don't think that size has ever been available in Great Britain as a commercial-van tyre?
I don't think that the 225/70 R14 or 27/8.5 R14 tyres are likely to be available in Great Britain and I doubt whether the 6.5 x 14 inch wheels with 112 mm PCD are either!
From what I read on The Samba Vanagon forum several years ago, 65-Series tyres on a 6.5 x 16 inch wheel, is the lowest profile recommended on the Syncro for off-road use.
A 215/65 R16C tyre's sidewall is only about 1/4 inch shorter than the sidewall of a 185/80 R14 tyre.
A 195/65 R16C tyre's sidewall is probably about 3/4 inch shorter than the sidewall of a 185/80 R14 tyre.
If I had my pocket calculator with me, I could work is out exactly! |
There has been some debate as to whether standard-profile radial-ply tyres with no specified aspect ratio, have an actual aspect ratio of 80%, 81%, 82% or 83%.
Some conference proceedings from an industry-sponsored conference about wheels & tyres, dating from circa 1983, stated that standard-profile radial-ply tyres had an aspect ratio of about 82% or 83%.
Measurement of the 204 metre (i.e. 2040 mm ± a few mm!) external circumference of my 1980s vintage, slightly used spare Michelin XZX 185 R14 Reinforced radial-ply tyre with 6 mm tread depth, indicated that it had probably had an aspect ratio of 80% to the nearest whole per cent; recalling that external tyre circumference in millimetres is given by:
External-tyre-circumference (mm) = 314159 x [Wheel-diameter (inches) x 25399 + Tyre-nominal-section-width (mm) x 2 x Tyre-aspect-ratio (%) / 100]
Which can be rearranged to give the tyres aspect ratio:
Tyre-aspect-ratio (%) = 100 / 2 x {[External-tyre-circumference (mm) / 314159] [Wheel-diameter (inches) x 25399]}
If one uses this formula and substitutes the aspect ratios 79%, 80%, 81%, 82% or 83% to predict the external circumference of a 1968~79 VW Type 2s factory-stock 185 SR14 (later designated as 185 R14, with a separate speed-rating letter after the size) radial-ply tyre, one obtains:
185/79 R14 => external circumference = 20354 mm
185/80 R14 => external circumference = 20470 mm
185/81 R14 => external circumference = 20586 mm
185/82 R14 => external circumference = 20703 mm
185/83 R14 => external circumference = 20819 mm
Using a conventional steel tape-measure, it was difficult to accurately measure the external circumference of a tyre, but I didnt have a tailors or dress-makers tape-measure that was long enough to reach all of the way around the tyres circumference.
Noting that a tyres sidewall height is independent of wheel diameter, and that a tyres sidewall height is solely dependent upon aspect ratio and nominal section-width (actual installed section-width depends upon tyre-manufacturing variability and the wheel-rim width used), one can use the following relationship to determine the sidewall height as follows:
Sidewall-height (mm) = Tyre-nominal-section-width (mm) x Aspect-ratio (%) / 100
185/80 => sidewall height = 148 mm (i.e. 583 inches)
185/81 => sidewall height = 14985 mm (i.e. 590 inches)
185/82 => sidewall height = 1517 mm (i.e. 597 inches)
185/83 => sidewall height = 15355 mm (i.e. 605 inches)
195/70 => sidewall height = 1365 mm (i.e. 537 inches) as for VW Transporter T4s 195/70 R15C tyres
205/70 => sidewall height = 1435 mm (i.e. 565 inches)
215/70 => sidewall height = 1505 mm (i.e. 593 inches)
225/70 => sidewall height = 1575 mm (i.e. 620 inches)
195/65 => sidewall height = 12675 mm (i.e. 499 inches)
205/65 => sidewall height = 13325 mm (i.e. 525 inches) as for VW Transporter T5s & T6s 205/65 R15C tyres
215/65 => sidewall height = 13975 mm (i.e. 550 inches)
225/65 => sidewall height = 14625 mm (i.e. 576 inches)
Sidewall height difference between the 185/80 and 205/65 tyres = 148 mm 13325 mm = 1475 mm (i.e. 058 inches)
Sidewall height difference between the 185/80 and 215/65 tyres = 148 mm 13975 mm = 825 mm (i.e. 032 inches)
Sidewall height difference between the 185/80 and 225/65 tyres = 148 mm 14625 mm = 175 mm (i.e. 007 inches)
_________________
Regards.
Nigel A. Skeet
Independent tutor (semi-retired) of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.
Much modified, RHD 1973 VW "1600" Type 2 Westfalia Continental campervan, with the World's only decent, cross-over-arm, SWF pantograph rear-window wiper
Onetime member, plus former Technical Editor & Editor of Transporter Talk magazine
Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club (Great Britain)
http://www.vwt2oc.net
Last edited by NASkeet on Thu Apr 01, 2021 11:01 am; edited 1 time in total |
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nemobuscaptain
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Posts: 3874
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nemobuscaptain
Samba Member
Joined: March 07, 2002
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| Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2021 10:49 am Post subject: Re: Wheels and tire suggestions? |
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| NASkeet wrote: |
| When I put my 1973 VW 1600 Type 2 Westfalia Continental motor-caravan back on the road, I shall probably be opting for either 205/65 R16C or 215/65 R16C commercial-van tyres on 7 x 16 inch Mercedes C-Class alloy wheels. These two tyre sizes have been the almost the de facto standard for modern medium-sized commercial vans for about the past ten years in Great Britain. |
Those arent great options for the Colonies. Our commercials tires are usually something like 265/85/16 on E350s, F150s, Chev vans or Silverados etc.
The minivans (or small/mid SUVs) tend to have low profile wide P rated tires that still arent good options.
We are finally getting a few "mid" vans of Euro roots so maybe our options will get better.
Edit just a little Tire Rack research because I hadnt really looked lately:
Ford Big Transit T150 235/65/16
Transit Connect 205/75/15XL seem pretty good for Bus
Fiat /Dodge Promaster City 225/55/16 probably ok (26")
Big Promaster 1500 225/70/16 (29" tall)
Mercedes Metris 225/75/17
Sprinter 2500 245/75/16
old Sprinters 225/70/16 ( too big and unavailable at Tire Rack)
185R14 are available here, mostly mail order. So are 27/8.50R14, mostly due to the vintage Jeep market. But if you need a new tire on the side of the road, forget it. Moreover you are limited to a highway tire only (which will disappoint you on even the lightest amount of snow, dirt, or even wet grass) or all terrain tire (which some think are too noisy).
_________________
Ohio Valley Tribe, Full Moon Bus Club https://www.facebook.com/groups/294422277314227/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/FullMoonBusClub
RIP Bob Hoover https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=427791
Hoover Sermons: https://www.vwsage.com/images/vwsage/Bob%20Hoovers%20Sermons.pdf
Last edited by nemobuscaptain on Sat Apr 03, 2021 1:15 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50353
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| Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2021 12:34 pm Post subject: Re: Wheels and tire suggestions? |
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| nemobuscaptain wrote: |
| Wildthings wrote: |
| FWIW I was with a friend a couple of weeks ago and he had a 1/4" diameter stick puncture the sidewall on an 8 ply truck tires, so higher ply ratings don't translate into super dependability as is often claimed here. One of the reasons I like the 27/8.5R14 is its 4 ply sidewalls are more heavily built than a typical 8 ply, which is part of the reason why they outweigh a 195r14 by 5 pounds or so. |
To be clear, they haveny made an 8 or 6 ply tire since the bias days. Radials have a "Ply Rating" which I think general corresponds to 6PR for a.Load Range C tire and 8PR for a LRD tire. |
Yes two plies on the sidewall is the norm for both 4, 6, and 8 ply rated tires. I think even the 10 rated tires on my pickup have just two ply sidewalls. I would presume the plies would be somewhat heavier on an 8 ply than a four ply, but the weight of the tires doesn't necessarily show than. IIRC the 4pr 215/70R14's on my Multivan weight more than 8pr 195R14's. In my mind the 27/8.5R14's offer the most protection against any kind damage except maybe heat from running fully loaded in 100°+ temps. |
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NASkeet
Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2006
Posts: 2958
Location: South Benfleet, Essex, UK
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| Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:23 am Post subject: Re: Wheels and tire suggestions? |
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| nemobuscaptain wrote: |
| NASkeet wrote: |
| When I put my 1973 VW 1600 Type 2 Westfalia Continental motor-caravan back on the road, I shall probably be opting for either 205/65 R16C or 215/65 R16C commercial-van tyres on 7 x 16 inch Mercedes C-Class alloy wheels. These two tyre sizes have been the almost the de facto standard for modern medium-sized commercial vans for about the past ten years in Great Britain. |
Those arent great options for the Colonies. Our commercials tires are usually something like 265/85/16 on E350s, F150s, Chev vans or Silverados etc.
The minivans (or small/mid SUVs) tend to have low profile wide P rated tires that still arent good options.
We are finally getting a few "mid" vans of Euro roots so maybe our options will get better.
Edit just a little Tire Rack research because I hadnt really looked lately:
Ford Big Transit T150 235/65/16
Transit Connect 205/75/15XL seem pretty good for Bus
Fiat /Dodge Promaster City 225/55/16 probably ok (26")
Big Promaster 1500 225/70/16 (29" tall)
Mercedes Metris 225/75/17
Sprinter 2500 245/75/16
old Sprinters 225/70/16 ( too big and unavailable at Tire Rack)
185R14 are available here, mostly mail order. So are 27/8.50R14, mostly due to the vintage Jeep market. But if you need a new tire on the side of the road, forget it. Moreover you are limited to a highway tire only (which will disappoint you on even the lightest amount of snow, dirt, or even wet grass) or all terrain tire (which some think are too noisy). |
If one has a classic car or van with "rare" or "difficult-to-obtain" tyres, it might be wise to carry two spare wheels and/or change to a wheel size for which tyres are likely to remain readily available in the long term.
I am aware that a few years ago, Alistair Craig in California, bought 195/65 R16C commercial-van tyres for the Mercedes C-Class wheels on his 1971 VW "1600" Type 2. I think this tyre size is used on the smaller Ford Transit there.
We of course have had various marks of the Ford Transit in Great Britain since the 1960s and I drove a late-1970s or early-1980s version of a Ford Transit 1600 panel-van based, mobile sound-transmission test laboratory, in connection with my work during the mid-1980s.
In Great Britain we have the Mercedes Vito and Mercedes Sprinter vans. All of the relatively modern ones use 65-Series, 16 inch commercial-van tyres. If my memory serves me correctly, the long-wheel base Sprinter uses 235/65 R16C tyres, whilst the Vito uses either one of 205/65 R16C or 215/65 R16.
There are various other vans that are common here, including the Ford Transit (or the minibus version called Ford Tourneo), Renault Trafic, Renault Master, Vauxhall Vivaro, Vauxhall Movano, VW Transporter T5 & T6, VW Crafter, etc which also use 65-Series, 16 inch commercial-van tyres.
_________________
Regards.
Nigel A. Skeet
Independent tutor (semi-retired) of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.
Much modified, RHD 1973 VW "1600" Type 2 Westfalia Continental campervan, with the World's only decent, cross-over-arm, SWF pantograph rear-window wiper
Onetime member, plus former Technical Editor & Editor of Transporter Talk magazine
Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club (Great Britain)
http://www.vwt2oc.net |
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NASkeet
Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2006
Posts: 2958
Location: South Benfleet, Essex, UK
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| Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2021 5:50 am Post subject: Re: Wheels and tire suggestions? |
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Here are some entries from my 2005 pocket diary about 65-Series commercial-van tyres and other 65-Series tyres, which seem to have been factory-fitted to several vehicle tyres since the beginning of the 21st Century. In a few decades, the USA might catch up with regard to these being readily available there! 
September 2005 entry: 225/65 R16C 112/110 R Maxilla Matador M+S commercial-van tyres on 02-registration, Vauxhall Movano 25 DTI panel van
August 2005 entry: 205/65 R16C tyre on VW Transporter T5 panel van
June/July 2005 entry: 205/65 R16C 103/105 T Continental Vanco Contact commercial-van tyres on 05-registration, Mercedes Vito 115CDI
May 2005 entry: 205/65 R16C 107/105 T Hankook commercial-van tyres on Ford Transit Tourneo
May/June 2005 entry: 215/65 R15 96H tyres on Fiat MPV
September 2005 entry: 215/65 R15 96H tyres on 03-registration Kia Sedona MPV
September 2005 entry: 215/65 R15 96H tyres on N-registration Ford Galaxy and P-registration Chrysler Grand Voyager
September 2005 entry: 215/65 R15 96H tyres on P-registration Toyota Lucida
_________________
Regards.
Nigel A. Skeet
Independent tutor (semi-retired) of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.
Much modified, RHD 1973 VW "1600" Type 2 Westfalia Continental campervan, with the World's only decent, cross-over-arm, SWF pantograph rear-window wiper
Onetime member, plus former Technical Editor & Editor of Transporter Talk magazine
Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club (Great Britain)
http://www.vwt2oc.net |
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