Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts New!  See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Fuel pump cavitation, which is my fault
Page: 1, 2, 3  Next
Forum Index -> Vanagon Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
davlance01
Samba Member


Joined: May 10, 2013
Posts: 185
Location: Ohio
davlance01 is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:18 pm    Post subject: Fuel pump cavitation, which is my fault Reply with quote

I installed a (canister style https://www.summitracing.com/parts/aei-12319) 100 micron pre filter and my fuel pump cavitates because of it.



The way I see it I have 5 options
1. Lift pump to keep the pre filter full.
2. In tank fuel pump with a big sock and eliminate the filter.
3. Put the filter on the shelf and forget about it.
4. Carry a extra fuel pump and swap it out every time they fail.
5. Get a larger pump that is capable of keeping the canister full.

I travel all over the country with this thing for work and get fuel at some pretty shady gas stations and the filter picks up all kinds of crap so I hate to get rid of it.

Any advice from people that have made this upgrade?
_________________
Life is short and the road is long so if you want to see it all you have to drive fast!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
dobryan Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 13790
Location: Brookeville, MD
dobryan is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Fuel pump cavitation which is my fault Reply with quote

I have to ask a stupid question. I have travelled all over the country but have been able to avoid questionable gas stations. Why do you need to use them?

I have the small cube prefilter to trap any big stuff but should not clog to cavitate the pump.

High quality canister filter after the pump.
_________________
Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD

"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson

MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646

Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371

The West Coast Westy
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
MarkWard
Samba Member


Joined: February 09, 2005
Posts: 15081
Location: Retired South Florida
MarkWard is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Fuel pump cavitation which is my fault Reply with quote

You could tie in the return with a small reservoir that would refeed the pump inlet and excess would return to the tank.
_________________
Adios
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
davlance01
Samba Member


Joined: May 10, 2013
Posts: 185
Location: Ohio
davlance01 is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 7:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Fuel pump cavitation which is my fault Reply with quote

Truth to be told after 31 years of delivering fuel to gas stations...they are all questionable. Most racks you load at have a strainer with no basket and if the gas station has one the chances of that $8 an hour cashier cleaning it is slim to none, they just leave them out too. I have no way of knowing the actual condition of their underground tanks.

I use it to deliver new semi trucks and sometimes I'm pretty far off the beaten path and have to fuel where I can.

The stock filter was not lasting and would cavitate as well just not as bad.

The metal shavings that this thing picks up that the square filter didn't was enough to convince me to try to keep it.

Clean fuel is always a good idea. If I could do more I would.

What would you do?
_________________
Life is short and the road is long so if you want to see it all you have to drive fast!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
davlance01
Samba Member


Joined: May 10, 2013
Posts: 185
Location: Ohio
davlance01 is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 7:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Fuel pump cavitation which is my fault Reply with quote

MarkWard wrote:
You could tie in the return with a small reservoir that would refeed the pump inlet and excess would return to the tank.


I thought of that but afraid I would create a vapor lock condition by not allowing the fuel to cool off in the tank.

I may try that though but I would have to have a easy way to reverse it out in the field. A shut off valve maybe.
_________________
Life is short and the road is long so if you want to see it all you have to drive fast!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
djkeev Premium Member
Samba Moderator


Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 28065
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
djkeev is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 5:10 am    Post subject: Re: Fuel pump cavitation which is my fault Reply with quote

What about the square prefilter but plumb in two filters after the pump?
Use a Tee and two valves, one clogs up mid journey? Reach under the Van and flip two valves...... away you go!

These pumps are obviously pumps that push, not big on lift.
Do some research, find a different pump that has better lift capabilities?

Dave
_________________
Stop Dead Photo Links how to post photos

Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473

Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537

Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
mikemtnbike
Samba Member


Joined: March 26, 2015
Posts: 2103
Location: North Carolina
mikemtnbike is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 5:24 am    Post subject: Re: Fuel pump cavitation which is my fault Reply with quote

Honestly, I'd switch to the mansispeed pre-filter.

https://mansispeed.com/products/
_________________
1991 Vanagon GL 2.1 AT Westfauxlia. "Frankie"
In an abundance of water, the fool is thirsty.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
SCM
Samba Member


Joined: January 26, 2011
Posts: 2707
Location: Bozeman MT
SCM is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:08 am    Post subject: Re: Fuel pump cavitation, which is my fault Reply with quote

My cavitation problems went away when I replaced my rusty old gas tank and I don't run a pre-filter and am on the same pump for over 10 years now. Are you sure that's not the problem?
_________________
'91 Westfalia GL Automatic (GTA "Turbo" Rebuild w/Peloquin) and 2.3L GoWesty Engine
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
oceanair
Samba Member


Joined: June 09, 2013
Posts: 666
Location: Victoria, BC
oceanair is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 12:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Fuel pump cavitation, which is my fault Reply with quote

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^This^^^^^^^^^^^
_________________
84 Vanagon Pop Top Conversion from Tin Top, 1970 Ghia - 2014 Jetta Wagon TDI -- all sweet rides! Love em!
Previous: Green 72 Tin Top, White 72 Westy, Blue 64 Beetle, Yellow 71 Squareback - wish I could have them all back!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
hardway
Samba Member


Joined: January 03, 2012
Posts: 142
Location: Fidalgo Island
hardway is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 12:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Fuel pump cavitation, which is my fault Reply with quote

I have a filter from Napa installed before the fuel pump. Part number 3248. No idea of what the micron rating is. !/2 inch nipples. I use BMW 12 mm ID fuel hose, 16 12 1 176 440. I have no cavitation.

While chasing an issue in a Vanagon recently I was surprised at how much trash I removed cleaning the inlet screen in the pump. I am going to make this a standard modification from now on.

Napa claims it is a gold filter. But it was only 3 or 4 dollars. It says made in China on it. As long as it catches the chunks I think it is a worthwhile investment.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
Nuthin2It Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: December 31, 2011
Posts: 264
Location: Marietta, GA
Nuthin2It is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 1:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Fuel pump cavitation, which is my fault Reply with quote

Option 6: Slow down the fuel pump with a resister.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Many people have done this successfully. I did it after trying everything else I could find in TheSamba, and it worked. Here's a link to the thread that I got the idea from: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0
_________________
1985 Westfalia 15 degree EA288 Boxeer
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
djkeev Premium Member
Samba Moderator


Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 28065
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
djkeev is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Fuel pump cavitation, which is my fault Reply with quote

hardway wrote:
I have a filter from Napa installed before the fuel pump. Part number 3248. No idea of what the micron rating is. !/2 inch nipples. I use BMW 12 mm ID fuel hose, 16 12 1 176 440. I have no cavitation.

While chasing an issue in a Vanagon recently I was surprised at how much trash I removed cleaning the inlet screen in the pump. I am going to make this a standard modification from now on.

Napa claims it is a gold filter. But it was only 3 or 4 dollars. It says made in China on it. As long as it catches the chunks I think it is a worthwhile investment.


Or $17.29 now........

Dave
_________________
Stop Dead Photo Links how to post photos

Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473

Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537

Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Abscate Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 17133
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
Abscate is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Fuel pump cavitation, which is my fault Reply with quote

A simple glass filter from West marine will run you about $15 and have real fittings

A more expensive one to drain water will be about 4x that

The few times Iíve had long term issues with shady fuel ( Central America, Africa, Central Asia) Iíve used plan B
_________________
.ssS!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Wildthings
Samba Member


Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 46008

Wildthings is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 4:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Fuel pump cavitation, which is my fault Reply with quote

On my '83 1/2I went from cube prefilter that clogged almost daily on a long trip to a canister filter after the pump about a dozen years ago. Changed the canister once since since then, just cuz.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
puchfinnland
Samba Member


Joined: December 26, 2005
Posts: 194
Location: Deale Maryland
puchfinnland is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 5:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Fuel pump cavitation, which is my fault Reply with quote

Im in the same situation

I have new fuel lines, tank,pump, all canisters are resealed w new roll-over valves, the thing is air tight!
12mm outlet, no pre-filter,

I just checked the vapor canister plumbing and all is working as it should.

I just ordered a new charcoal canister as this may cause too much vacuum when its clogged or not breathing properly.

On Friday I filled the tank and listened to the very noisy pump on our trip camping, on our return trip with half a tank it was quiet as a mouse.

I also want to throw into the discussion the voltage,
before my trip I charged the batteries, so the alternator was pumping out over 13.5v as they were full,
on my trip home my house battery was very low, raining and headlights on, and the volt meter was around 12.6-12.8 trying to keep up, so I have a test concept


when the pump is making noise, turn on some heavy consumers
wipers, lights, rear defrost, blower motors and see if that pump shuts up



I would be interested in a voltage stabilizer for the pump, not just a resistor as my pump was quiet on return trip
_________________
ABYC marine master technician , EX European auto technician, new business- EASTCOASTWEST , custom work on campers, only systems, no mechanical
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Facebook Gallery Classifieds Feedback
82westyrabbit
Samba Member


Joined: March 02, 2015
Posts: 847
Location: Ma
82westyrabbit is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Fuel pump cavitation, which is my fault Reply with quote

I ran a prepump to fix that problem. I changed my fuel tank and it was no longer necessary. I run a square prefilter and the can filter after the pump. I donít have any problem with pump cavitating any more. Just my experience. John
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
dgbeatty Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: October 26, 2006
Posts: 677
Location: Sacramento
dgbeatty is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Fuel pump cavitation, which is my fault Reply with quote

A very major problem is the incorrect pump being installed. Without naming offenders suffice it to says that many "similiar" pumps are being installed. They are too good with much higher flow which in this case is not a good thing.
_________________
Schau in das Buch
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
davlance01
Samba Member


Joined: May 10, 2013
Posts: 185
Location: Ohio
davlance01 is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2021 3:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Fuel pump cavitation, which is my fault Reply with quote

My tank is new but has the smaller 7mm outlet.

All the numbers on the pump are correct (psi, flow) and the car runs fine. Just noisy.

I do have A3 injectors, maybe that's affecting flow?

When I get back to Ohio I'll try out some of you guys ideas and get back with the results.

Just went from ohio to Iowa up to Minnesota back to Ohio and now I got to pick one up in Ohio and take it to jersey then back to Minnesota then Ohio then I'm putting this thing back on the rack for new engine seals, steering rack boots and deal with this noisy pump!

Whatever I end up with has to work rock solid cause the down time kills my profit margins and my wife is whining about bills for the month! Rolling Eyes
_________________
Life is short and the road is long so if you want to see it all you have to drive fast!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
davlance01
Samba Member


Joined: May 10, 2013
Posts: 185
Location: Ohio
davlance01 is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2021 4:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Fuel pump cavitation, which is my fault Reply with quote

Nuthin2It wrote:
Option 6: Slow down the fuel pump with a resister.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Many people have done this successfully. I did it after trying everything else I could find in TheSamba, and it worked. Here's a link to the thread that I got the idea from: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0


The pump I have in is running at 3000 rpm, I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around what slowing down the pump is going to do.

Affect flow, lower psi, what is it doing that lowers cavitation?

I'm going to try it, I'll hook a transducer to the fuel line and show before and after waveforms and post it.
_________________
Life is short and the road is long so if you want to see it all you have to drive fast!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
davlance01
Samba Member


Joined: May 10, 2013
Posts: 185
Location: Ohio
davlance01 is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2021 4:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Fuel pump cavitation, which is my fault Reply with quote

dgbeatty wrote:
A very major problem is the incorrect pump being installed. Without naming offenders suffice it to says that many "similiar" pumps are being installed. They are too good with much higher flow which in this case is not a good thing.


Got me wondering if that is what the resistors are solving?
_________________
Life is short and the road is long so if you want to see it all you have to drive fast!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Vanagon All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page: 1, 2, 3  Next
Page 1 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2020, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB