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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22670 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 12:46 am Post subject: Re: Buying a Bay Window |
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Promise us you will not TOUCH this screw until you can come back and write a paragraph about what it does and what it is attached to inside the engine, and then how you will remove and tighten it ..
Start here ....
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=645213
_________________ .ssS! |
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HoboBus Samba Member
Joined: December 29, 2016 Posts: 347 Location: Massachusetts
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Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 6:45 am Post subject: Re: Buying a Bay Window |
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The Purple People Eater! Though you’re probably too young to know that song.
Looks like a great bus! Very clean. Congrats! From another 73 tin top owner.
My personal comments — I would replace the fuel filter, and move it to outside the engine compartment. I feel the less connections inside the engine compartment, the better. Less chance for leaking. That’s one thing that’s nice about the single carb - one fuel hose, and one connection at the carb, and that’s it. Put the fuel filter below, down by the fuel pump.
As for the oil light, this is your oil pressure indicator. This is why it’s important. If it comes on, you’ve got no oil pressure. Kinda good to know. Make it work.
Congrats again man. I’d say you got a good deal on a nice bus, with a great opportunity to make the interior your own. Let’s see more progress pics! _________________ Salt air it ain't thin, it'll stick right to your skin,
it'll make you feel fine. Makes you feel fine.
And I wanna be there. -- Jimmy Buffett
Just a beach-oriented camping Hobo with a bus. |
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OB Bus Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2003 Posts: 2541 Location: Ocean Beach in Beautiful BLUE California
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Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 7:14 am Post subject: Re: Buying a Bay Window |
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theguyryry wrote: |
orwell84 wrote: |
Looks like a solid bus. The frame and front beam look great. Looks like factory paint under original undercoating. The original heater tubes look to be all there. That’s usually the first thing that rusts to bits. |
the PO did mention that the heater isn't working. I was planning on asking the hive mind about that once I figured out the idle, fuel lines, and oil light. He did mention that the only rust on the bus when he owned it was the front floorpan, and he cut the whole pan out and replaced it with a new one |
Isn't that bus missing the heater booster fan? _________________ Larry in OB
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
69 Westfalia and 2002 Eurovan Camper. |
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theguyryry Samba Member
Joined: March 31, 2021 Posts: 100 Location: Portland, OR
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Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 8:19 am Post subject: Re: Buying a Bay Window |
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One of the first things I want to tackle is redoing the fuel lines. I'm a little paranoid that my bus is going to catch fire after spending too much time on here, and there's been some concern on this thread about the look of the filter. I was doing some searching and found the following on this thread:
rockerarm wrote: |
I remember on the carb'd T-4 engines that had the fuel pump at the right lower part of the engine, one of the fuel hoses was a special stepped hose. I believe it was the hose that ran from the tank outlet to the inlet of the fuel pump. In lieu of this special hose we used to install the commonly used plastic fuel filter that had 1/4" and 5/16" step at each end.
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Is this a good start to replacing the fuel lines? I was looking at replacing them with stainless steel hoses. It looks like I would have to add aircraft style fittings to my carb, which would probably be a PITA, but would be worth it in the long run. Definitely looking for advice as to which direction to go, if anyone has any opinions
update: I just looked at the current hoses in my bus, it looks like the person who rebuilt the motor didn't use metric hoses. fuel line from fuel filter to carb is SAE-30R7-KX which google searching tells me is 1/4 inch hose, and the rest is 15/16" hose ( based on the writing on the side ). I'm curious... how does the fuel even get to the carb? Is there some sort of vacuum mechanism? Is the fuel line using the Bernoulli principle? |
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HoboBus Samba Member
Joined: December 29, 2016 Posts: 347 Location: Massachusetts
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Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:01 am Post subject: Re: Buying a Bay Window |
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theguyryry wrote: |
I'm curious... how does the fuel even get to the carb? Is there some sort of vacuum mechanism? Is the fuel line using the Bernoulli principle? |
Time to just crawl under the bus and look around. Follow the fuel lines.
If it’s all stock, you should find a mechanical fuel pump on the passenger side of the motor, behind the passenger rear wheel. As always, posting pics helps everyone help you. _________________ Salt air it ain't thin, it'll stick right to your skin,
it'll make you feel fine. Makes you feel fine.
And I wanna be there. -- Jimmy Buffett
Just a beach-oriented camping Hobo with a bus. |
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wagohn Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2014 Posts: 740 Location: United States
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Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:13 am Post subject: Re: Buying a Bay Window |
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HoboBus wrote: |
If it’s all stock, you should find a mechanical fuel pump on the passenger side of the motor, behind the passenger rear wheel. As always, posting pics helps everyone help you. |
Not my pic, but....
_________________ 1976 VW Transporter, 2.0 FI Engine |
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theguyryry Samba Member
Joined: March 31, 2021 Posts: 100 Location: Portland, OR
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Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:29 am Post subject: Re: Buying a Bay Window |
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HoboBus wrote: |
theguyryry wrote: |
I'm curious... how does the fuel even get to the carb? Is there some sort of vacuum mechanism? Is the fuel line using the Bernoulli principle? |
Time to just crawl under the bus and look around. Follow the fuel lines.
If it’s all stock, you should find a mechanical fuel pump on the passenger side of the motor, behind the passenger rear wheel. As always, posting pics helps everyone help you. |
ask and ye shall receive! Looks to me like it's been replaced with an eletric fuel pump? and it looks like there's a second inline fuel filter. Is that common?
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Brian Samba Moderator
Joined: May 28, 2012 Posts: 8340 Location: Oceanside
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Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 11:43 am Post subject: Re: Buying a Bay Window |
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good ol electric pump. I didn't see (or look that hard) for a fuel pressure regulator, might be worth checking the fuel pressure that's coming out of that thing. Carbs don't like too much.
I'd change out the fuel filters and check them after about a week of running. If it turns a nasty color quickly, you'll quickly be pulling that fuel tank out. _________________ Wash your hands
'69 Bug
'68 Baja Truck
'71 Bug
'68 Camper
Only losers litter |
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theguyryry Samba Member
Joined: March 31, 2021 Posts: 100 Location: Portland, OR
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Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 11:59 am Post subject: Re: Buying a Bay Window |
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Brian wrote: |
good ol electric pump. I didn't see (or look that hard) for a fuel pressure regulator, might be worth checking the fuel pressure that's coming out of that thing. Carbs don't like too much.
I'd change out the fuel filters and check them after about a week of running. If it turns a nasty color quickly, you'll quickly be pulling that fuel tank out. |
a good idea! any advice on how to replace the fuel filters without having to drain the tank / get gas all over me? |
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Brian Samba Moderator
Joined: May 28, 2012 Posts: 8340 Location: Oceanside
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Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 12:02 pm Post subject: Re: Buying a Bay Window |
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You'll have to experience a golden shower at some point in time. Pinch off the fuel line as close to the filter ends and you can get them out with minimal spillage _________________ Wash your hands
'69 Bug
'68 Baja Truck
'71 Bug
'68 Camper
Only losers litter |
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wagohn Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2014 Posts: 740 Location: United States
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Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 12:13 pm Post subject: Re: Buying a Bay Window |
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theguyryry wrote: |
a good idea! any advice on how to replace the fuel filters without having to drain the tank / get gas all over me? |
Use a pair of Mole Grips to shut off the fuel from the tank side (grip the rubber fuel line and lock them). The goal is to stop a continuous flow of fuel from the tank.
Also, baby steps. Don't jump into something unless you are at a certain comfort level. For example, don't even think about pulling the tank, etc. Chances are it's fine. _________________ 1976 VW Transporter, 2.0 FI Engine |
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OB Bus Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2003 Posts: 2541 Location: Ocean Beach in Beautiful BLUE California
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Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 1:25 pm Post subject: Re: Buying a Bay Window |
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And the fuel line should be at least R9 for longevity and alcohol resistance.
I also see rust chunks in that fuel filter. _________________ Larry in OB
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
69 Westfalia and 2002 Eurovan Camper. |
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HoboBus Samba Member
Joined: December 29, 2016 Posts: 347 Location: Massachusetts
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Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 2:03 pm Post subject: Re: Buying a Bay Window |
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At least it's not a plastic body Mr Gasket pump.
The little metal cube jobs seem to be pretty reliable.
Try to find a label and Brand on it, and as noted prior see if you can find out the pressure. Facet brand is common for the cubes. The low pressure versions are preferred. Like less than 3 psi.
If its mounted decently, wired properly, and hoses fitted properly, and its not the higher pressure version, really no reason to change it right now, IMHO. I use the stock mechanical pump on my bus.
But I have an electric cube style job on my MGB, which runs a progressive Weber. Those cars were electric pumps stock, though. _________________ Salt air it ain't thin, it'll stick right to your skin,
it'll make you feel fine. Makes you feel fine.
And I wanna be there. -- Jimmy Buffett
Just a beach-oriented camping Hobo with a bus. |
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Zelten Samba Member
Joined: September 16, 2008 Posts: 1335 Location: Issaquah
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Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 7:12 pm Post subject: Re: Buying a Bay Window |
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theguyryry wrote: |
Brian wrote: |
good ol electric pump. I didn't see (or look that hard) for a fuel pressure regulator, might be worth checking the fuel pressure that's coming out of that thing. Carbs don't like too much.
I'd change out the fuel filters and check them after about a week of running. If it turns a nasty color quickly, you'll quickly be pulling that fuel tank out. |
a good idea! any advice on how to replace the fuel filters without having to drain the tank / get gas all over me? |
https://shop.harborfreight.com/media/catalog/produ..._16750.jpg
Get a set of these and clamp off the hose. _________________ 1978 Delux Campmobile
03 Jetta TDI
15 Q7 TDI |
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theguyryry Samba Member
Joined: March 31, 2021 Posts: 100 Location: Portland, OR
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Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 7:55 am Post subject: Re: Buying a Bay Window |
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Alright hive mind,
I went digging through Muir's book and the Bentley manual trying to figure out why my oil pressure dummy light isn't turning on when I turn the ignition. These are the steps I followed:
1. Make sure the fuse is good. It uses the same fuse on my bus as the alternator light, and that works, so it shouldn't be that. Regardless, I took it out and checked, and it looks like it's not fried.
2. Make sure the bulb is good. I took the bulb out and verified that the bulb's filament was not broken. I should have read that whole section in the manual before starting... I ended up taking the whole instrument panel before realizing I could just unscrew the bulb from the back... lol. Learned my lesson. Also realized that all but one of the alligator clips holding the instrument cluster in place are MIA. Gonna check the sites to see if I can find replacements.
3. Make sure the oil pressure sensor is wired and connected. In Muir's book, he states the oil sensor is directly in front of the distributor on the Type 4 motor. I searched around and didn't see anything remotely close to what both the manual and Muir's book describe. I did some research, and I believe it's supposed to be where the bolt is in the image below. I could be wrong, because... well... you know. total noob and all.
I continued searching around the engine compartment and couldn't find anything that looks like it. I'm starting to think it's been removed. I attempted reading through the wiring diagram, and I think it's a green and blue wire for most of the run from the light to the engine bay, with some just green wiring. So I started looking around for a green or blue / green wire hanging loose in the engine bay, and I think I found it here, just to the right of the ignition coil:
It's hard to say, because the color is pretty faded, but it does lead back to the front of the bus via a bundle of cables that lead through via the front + right of the engine bay. I'm thinking it might be worth buying an oil pressure sensor and installing it where it was originally supposed to go, and hooking it up to that wire. What's the worst that can happen?
Questions:
a. Are there any other common places where the oil pressure sensor is installed on the type 4 motor that I can check?
b. Is that bolt right in front of the distributor the correct place for the oil pressure sensor to be installed?
c. what are my best options from here?
d. seriously... what's the worst that can happen?
e. While we're here, is there a way I can figure out what type of distributor I have?
I should mention that I did reach out the PO in hopes he would know any details on it from the engine rebuild, but he said he did not know, and said he believed "the pressure sensor was put on the motor in the back when it was rebuilt". |
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crownline Samba Member
Joined: September 10, 2010 Posts: 593 Location: Northwoods of WI
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Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 8:07 am Post subject: Re: Buying a Bay Window |
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Where that bolt is is supposed to be the sender. P.O. probably had a leaking bad sensor and instead of replacing it threaded a bolt in. _________________ 1972 Bus 1700 cc Single Carb. But not a progressive.
Barelymuvin
Wish I still had the ones I got rid of.
"It"s got some dings and dents and neither of us is going to SEMA."(Update, I went to SEMA in 2019 but the Bus stayed home)
[url=http://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-8446.png]Click to view image[/URL] |
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wagohn Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2014 Posts: 740 Location: United States
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Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 8:18 am Post subject: Re: Buying a Bay Window |
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If you think you have found the oil sensor wire, touch it to ground and the dash oil light should illuminate. If it does, all you have to work on then is fitting the sensor. _________________ 1976 VW Transporter, 2.0 FI Engine |
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theguyryry Samba Member
Joined: March 31, 2021 Posts: 100 Location: Portland, OR
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Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 9:03 am Post subject: Re: Buying a Bay Window |
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wagohn wrote: |
If you think you have found the oil sensor wire, touch it to ground and the dash oil light should illuminate. If it does, all you have to work on then is fitting the sensor. |
I spliced the end of what I thought was the correct wire and touched it to the ground. had my gf turn the ignition key to the first position, and no cigar on the light. I'm assuming the key has to be turned to the first position for the light to come on, right?
I'm hoping someone with a type 4 motor can post a picture of where the wire on their oil sensor is located... copying is the best form of flattery |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51153 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 10:08 am Post subject: Re: Buying a Bay Window |
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theguyryry wrote: |
I'm hoping someone with a type 4 motor can post a picture of where the wire on their oil sensor is located... copying is the best form of flattery |
Don't forget the Samba gallery, here's a search for "oil sender" in 68-79 camper for example: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_search.php...t_dir=DESC
There's some temp senders in there as well, but quite a few of what you are dealing with. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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HoboBus Samba Member
Joined: December 29, 2016 Posts: 347 Location: Massachusetts
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Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 10:32 am Post subject: Re: Buying a Bay Window |
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theguyryry wrote: |
I'm thinking it might be worth buying an oil pressure sensor and installing it where it was originally supposed to go, and hooking it up to that wire. |
Does the bus have any extra oil pressure gauge or oil temperature gauge or something hanging off the dash? If not, I'd guess as was stated the sensor probably leaked and got pulled out and replaced with a bolt. Which is sad, because oil pressure is the lifeblood of the engine, and the sensor is all of $5-10 to buy. Short of having an actual pressure gauge, you want that light to work.
Definitely go buy a sensor.
Yes, that's where the sensor goes. M10x1 threads. Looks like you have the right wire. My wire comes from a loom that goes to the coil, on my 73.
When you turn the key to RUN you should get the oil light and alternator light ON, on the dash. My brake indicator illuminates also.
To troubleshoot, with key on you should get 12v at the bulb, also 12v at the wire in back. Circuit works by 12v+ going through the bulb, out to the sensor. Sensor switch closes to engine case ground at 0 psi, light comes on. Engine running the sensor switch opens at 3 psi, circuit loses ground, light goes out.
So also check your engine case ground to battery negative.
If you start the motor and the light doesn't go out, you've got less than 3 psi.
If the light flickers or comes on at idle, you've got low psi, less than 3, at idle.
Good luck! _________________ Salt air it ain't thin, it'll stick right to your skin,
it'll make you feel fine. Makes you feel fine.
And I wanna be there. -- Jimmy Buffett
Just a beach-oriented camping Hobo with a bus. |
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