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epowell
Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2015
Posts: 4733
Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
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 Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2021 3:43 pm Post subject: Re: Seeking advice for major paint touch up and body work |
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| fleetwood41 wrote: |
@Ed - I don't think my rust spots are as bad or as big as yours. Mine is mostly lower seams, a fender well, one from backing into a tree, and 1,000 little pockmarks....mostly below the windshield. I want to do a full respray once my finance box is stuffed full again (just paid off the mortgage!) but in the meantime, I'd like to go ahead and attack this rust and maybe learn some skills while I'm at it.
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Your body looks very original - original paint job and everything... similar condition to my van in Vancouver.
But my green Czech van is a total Frankenvan... everything mixed and matched and redone a few times. A great van to learn on.... and I love him (GEorge) regardless and will never sell.
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fleetwood41
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Joined: April 06, 2012
Posts: 107
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2021 4:14 pm Post subject: Re: Seeking advice for major paint touch up and body work |
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Yessir, it's original.
Will you be documenting any of your progress?
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epowell
Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2015
Posts: 4733
Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
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| Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 12:25 am Post subject: Re: Seeking advice for major paint touch up and body work |
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| fleetwood41 wrote: |
Yessir, it's original.
Will you be documenting any of your progress? |
Yes I always document here all of my progress.
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4Gears4Tires
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Joined: October 08, 2018
Posts: 3048
Location: MD
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| Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 7:41 am Post subject: Re: Seeking advice for major paint touch up and body work |
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I've seen a few people have success with airless paint sprayers, they have a built in compressor so they don't need a standalone compressor.
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epowell
Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2015
Posts: 4733
Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
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| Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 11:07 am Post subject: Re: Seeking advice for major paint touch up and body work |
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| 4Gears4Tires wrote: |
| I've seen a few people have success with airless paint sprayers, they have a built in compressor so they don't need a standalone compressor. |
...otherwise I imagine it's a bit costly just to get 'set up' to spray.
I know for sure that the 'roll-on' method will not yield very good results. But I also want to keep things in perspective--- the van will never look all that great, and I want something that I can be a bit rough with and not stress out - worrying about scratches etc...
...so I am wondering if it is worth the investment.
OK, this is a very personal decision I probably ought not bother anyone here about. It also involves other factors like if I would use the compressor and sprayer for other things.... [in fact very likely I would use it to spray my musical instruments with...] ---- so I need to contemplate this.
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DuncanS
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Joined: October 17, 2013
Posts: 4583
Location: New Hampshire
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| Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 2:01 pm Post subject: Re: Seeking advice for major paint touch up and body work |
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| Actually, the roll on method can work very well. Google it. There are a number of guys who have done it. Interlux Perfection 2 part and 1 x 5" sausage rollers. A buddy painted his 28' sailboat with Orly Blue--I mean Interlux Dark Blue--very close in color and it looked as good as a new Bentley in the showroom. No top coat. |
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epowell
Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2015
Posts: 4733
Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
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| Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 2:12 pm Post subject: Re: Seeking advice for major paint touch up and body work |
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| DuncanS wrote: |
| Actually, the roll on method can work very well. Google it. There are a number of guys who have done it. Interlux Perfection 2 part and 1 x 5" sausage rollers. A buddy painted his 28' sailboat with Orly Blue--I mean Interlux Dark Blue--very close in color and it looked as good as a new Bentley in the showroom. No top coat. |
I'm sure you are right, and I am always the guy to do things in unorthodox ways ... Another consideration however, also is RSI pain in my hands. I do everything with my hands and they are starting to wear out... so tons of flat sanding might not be prudent for me.
Another question is all the paint dust during the sanding process.... I am already overloaded with breathing in dust from my instrument building.
Having said that I like to do things as cheaply as possible, and without having to buy even more equipment.
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DuncanS
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Joined: October 17, 2013
Posts: 4583
Location: New Hampshire
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| Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 6:40 pm Post subject: Re: Seeking advice for major paint touch up and body work |
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| Random orbital with 220 grit on a windy day. No dust will ever get close to you. A roller job for a car is about as unorthodox as you can get. |
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epowell
Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2015
Posts: 4733
Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
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| Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 11:51 pm Post subject: Re: Seeking advice for major paint touch up and body work |
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| DuncanS wrote: |
| Random orbital with 220 grit on a windy day. No dust will ever get close to you. A roller job for a car is about as unorthodox as you can get. |
Actually using a big fan even on a non-windy day can majorly reduce dust... I need to do this.
But the orbital sanders will not "flat-sand", no? From my understanding, in order to get a roll-on job to look good the key is to hand sand with large flat sanding blocks - I assume this is the only way to really achieve flatness...... ?
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DuncanS
Samba Member
Joined: October 17, 2013
Posts: 4583
Location: New Hampshire
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| Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 1:11 am Post subject: Re: Seeking advice for major paint touch up and body work |
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| Use 320 It won't remove enough to create problems. It will only roughen the surface for a good bond with the new paint. If you keep the pad flat and move rapidly back and forth, it will be fine. You should hand sand the curves. This is what they do on boats where the surface has to be as good as an automobile. |
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epowell
Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2015
Posts: 4733
Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
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| Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 1:44 am Post subject: Re: Seeking advice for major paint touch up and body work |
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| DuncanS wrote: |
| Use 320 It won't remove enough to create problems. It will only roughen the surface for a good bond with the new paint. If you keep the pad flat and move rapidly back and forth, it will be fine. You should hand sand the curves. This is what they do on boats where the surface has to be as good as an automobile. |
So you mean a sander like this:
True that this machine (which I have) does have a flat surface.
If I would go this route I assume that I would
1 - first lay the fiber bondo down as smooth as possible
2 - orbital sand with 60 grit flat
3 - next lay down the fine bondo
4 - orbital sand flat with 80 grit
5 - epoxy primer - then sand with 120 grit
6 - more epoxy primer - then sand with 180 grit
7 - top coat - then sand with 320
8 - more top coat (maybe 2 or 3 coats?) - then final sand with grits from 600 - 800 - 1000 - 1500 - 2000 - 2500
9 - then polish with metal polishing cream with a cloth or perhaps a buffing wheel on the grinder? Also possible to use different grades of polishing cream
10 - finally go camping and drive thru some thorny bushes 
...any comments? Suggestions? Corrections?
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4Gears4Tires
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Joined: October 08, 2018
Posts: 3048
Location: MD
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| Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 5:38 am Post subject: Re: Seeking advice for major paint touch up and body work |
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| epowell wrote: |
| 4Gears4Tires wrote: |
| I've seen a few people have success with airless paint sprayers, they have a built in compressor so they don't need a standalone compressor. |
...otherwise I imagine it's a bit costly just to get 'set up' to spray. |
Yeah, you need a really decent compressor to be able to paint. I tried to paint my red e30 with a Harbor Freight paint gun and a 3 gallon compressor. That did not work. It would paint for 10 seconds and then need to run for 45. My neighbor threw me a line over the fence from his compressor.  He has that large HF compressor. 60 gallons or something.
Back before my garage! It came out pretty decent for a race car and using rusteoleum furniture paint. I did not do any prep work like sanding or washing the car and after a few years it's flaking in a lot of places. But for $9.. eh who cares.
I'm not sure I would paint the van since I don't want to deal with the dust (I would actually sand it this time) but if I did, I would get an airless paint sprayer. Especially since I can reuse that to stain fences/porches/etc.
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DuncanS
Samba Member
Joined: October 17, 2013
Posts: 4583
Location: New Hampshire
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| Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 6:31 am Post subject: Re: Seeking advice for major paint touch up and body work |
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No. That one is a reciprocal sander with straight back and forth movements. You need one like this which has a completely random pattern and won't leave parallel scratches.
It's called a random orbital.
duncan |
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alaskadan
Samba Member
Joined: January 09, 2013
Posts: 1858
Location: anchor pt. alaska
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| Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 8:23 am Post subject: Re: Seeking advice for major paint touch up and body work |
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Here's some pics of my van after I painted it with a 50 dollar husky spray gun and a 1 1/2 gallon dewalt nail gun compressor. Not my usual compressor for the task but winter was coming soon and I had to get paint on it.
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epowell
Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2015
Posts: 4733
Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
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| Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 12:16 pm Post subject: Re: Seeking advice for major paint touch up and body work |
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| alaskadan wrote: |
Here's some pics of my van after I painted it with a 50 dollar husky spray gun and a 1 1/2 gallon dewalt nail gun compressor. Not my usual compressor for the task but winter was coming soon and I had to get paint on it.
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Geez.... that looks beautiful!
But now I'm a bit confused, Gears says that a 3 gallon compressor wouldn't work, and Dan says that a 1.5 gallon compressor with a very cheap gun did this amazing paint job!!
Do you have some more pics of the full job... how it originally looked and how you dealt with the issues?
Are you suggesting that I re-paint my whole van as opposed to touching up the terrible spots?
As I said before the van was re-painted about 8 years ago and someone did a whole bunch of heavy welding work... obviously the van was stripped right down, and someone weld repaired all the heavy body rust (the frame is in very good condition). But unfortunately although they did repair everything, they didn't so really such a good job, and the bondo is cracking here and there, and rust is bubbling thru the seams and other areas.... obviously whoever did it was not meticulous about getting ALL the rust out.
Anyone have any links to:
1) tutorials on how to do this work with a paint roller
2) links to buy cheapest possible sprayer and compressor that would still do the job?
THANKS!
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alaskadan
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Joined: January 09, 2013
Posts: 1858
Location: anchor pt. alaska
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| Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 3:00 pm Post subject: Re: Seeking advice for major paint touch up and body work |
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| Thanks. Obviously its possible. I've painted with better guns in better booths ( never in a real paint booth though) and a proper compressor. So knowing how much better it can be made using my nail gun compressor frustrating but not impossible. Made even more challenging because i was spraying metallic paint.There are more pics in my gallery. The issue is that when spraying the gun wants a certain pressure at a certain CFM. The smaller the compressor tank the shorter the window of time you have in the zone before pressure drops too much and the compressor kicks on. And no, the compressor cant keep up with the gun in use. You have to stop and wait for it to come up to pressure. So if you bought a 5hp 5 gallon compressor still be lacking by all auto painting standards but very doable. They're pretty cheap. When it came to paint day it was done that day. How many days will rolling it take? I'm not questioning whether on not one can get good results with a rolled paint job, just that it seems like a hard way of going about it. |
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RoryGirl
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Joined: October 14, 2016
Posts: 784
Location: WestWorld Nanaimo BC
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| Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 3:49 pm Post subject: Re: Seeking advice for major paint touch up and body work |
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| epowell wrote: |
2) links to buy cheapest possible sprayer and compressor that would still do the job? |
Cheapest and best would be a second hand compressor off FB marketplace/craigslist/etc. I got mine for $100 with a hose and it also handles the light sandblast duty I've thrown at it even though the specs say otherwise. I see compressors like this for sale all day long here on the island, you should have an easier time on the mainland. I don't think a nail compressor would handle the sandblasting.
These sell out quick when they're on sale, or a "hot buy". I haven't sprayed with mine yet.
https://www.princessauto.com/en/14-mm-hvlp-gravity-paint-gun/product/PA0008870685
And you'll need something like this...or you can get disposable ones at the paint store/Amazon
https://www.princessauto.com/en/1-4-in-nptf-in-line-air-filter/product/PA0008602468
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djkeev
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epowell
Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2015
Posts: 4733
Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
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| Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 1:33 am Post subject: Re: Seeking advice for major paint touch up and body work |
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So if I understand correctly, the cheaper compressors and the ones with a smaller capacity 1.5 gallons for example.... and with a small capacity compressor it STILL IS possible to spray, but the drawback is that you can only spray for a few seconds before having to wait for the pressure to build back up.
So my take-away from this assessment would be that to spray a whole van with a small cheap compressor would be very very time consuming and frustrating (but still possible). However, just for the occasional small touch up job a small cheap one would be ok.
I am currently asking a guitar maker friend what kind of gear he uses to spray his instruments.
But having a compressor, even a small one, would also open up a new world for air tools I suppose, or would a small wimpy compressor not cut the mustard for this?
Also, all professional luthier workshops I know of always have a little air spray gun dangling around somewhere to be used for spraying away dust from the instruments and your clothes at the end of the day. Very very useful!
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djkeev
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| Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 4:08 am Post subject: Re: Seeking advice for major paint touch up and body work |
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Every air operated device has usage requirements.
One is PSI Pounds per Square Inch (or the European equivalent)
This is how much pressure can the unit pump up to.
The other is CFM Cubic Feet per Minute.
This is the volume of air that it can continuously deliver while being used non stop at a given PSI.
Every air tool has a PSI and a CFM requirement for proper operation.
Shop tools and see what amount of air they need to operate, now buy a compressor that can deliver that specified air to the tool.
A hist of other variables comes into play such as feed pipe length and diameter, but let's not go there.
When painting, a wet edge is important for a good finish.
If you have to keep stopping and waiting for the compressor, that wet edge dries.
The spray pattern and atomization also changes with the loss of adequate air pressure / volume.
Dave
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