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Ryan P Samba Member
Joined: April 14, 2018 Posts: 228 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 12:33 pm Post subject: Removing Piston on frozen engine |
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I have this question in my "First engine rebuild" thread also but thought not everyone reads that. The number 4 rod is frozen on the crank and in a position that does not allow to be able to push the pin out. The case is split but the case has "webbing" and hits the pistons. I have the crank and rod soaked in PB Blaster to hope it will free.
Any thoughts on how to remove the piston?
_________________ 1969 Beetle
1972 Camper
1977 Beetle (Standard) |
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22568 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 12:49 pm Post subject: Re: Removing Piston on frozen engine |
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Is the crank turning ? If it isn’t , there isn’t a lot of point opening it up other than erotica _________________ .ssS! |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51057 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 12:50 pm Post subject: Re: Removing Piston on frozen engine |
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Reach through the #2 hole and undo the rod nuts.
Edit: never mind, the nuts are on the piston side of the journals on those, doh.
Get the 1/2 side of the case off leaving the crank in the 3/4 side and see why it doesn't turn. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
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Слава Україні! |
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Ryan P Samba Member
Joined: April 14, 2018 Posts: 228 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 1:01 pm Post subject: Re: Removing Piston on frozen engine |
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Abscate wrote: |
Is the crank turning ? If it isn’t , there isn’t a lot of point opening it up other than erotica |
Yes it does turn would turn It appears to only be the rod on number 4. I was able to pull the case enough to see inside and it seems to be ok. No metal shavings just some surface rust. I think the rust is what is holding in in place.
busdaddy wrote: |
Reach through the #2 hole and undo the rod nuts. |
I did half a try but will give it a full try and see what happens.
Thank you _________________ 1969 Beetle
1972 Camper
1977 Beetle (Standard) |
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timvw7476 Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2013 Posts: 2182 Location: seattle
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Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 1:11 pm Post subject: Re: Removing Piston on frozen engine |
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just strip it as though the piston is off.
then when the case is split, there will be room to access nuts.
From there, I use a punch or another used pin to coax the frozen pin out.
Trying to de-varnish with acetone or Berryman B-12 helps get the pin moving too.
Using scrap 2x4 wood pieces keeps the piston unmarred. If that's your aim. |
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22568 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 1:20 pm Post subject: Re: Removing Piston on frozen engine |
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I see. The crank won’t turn enough for the piston to come out for pin removal.
Split case and deal with it from back side as noted above _________________ .ssS! |
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Ryan P Samba Member
Joined: April 14, 2018 Posts: 228 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 1:25 pm Post subject: Re: Removing Piston on frozen engine |
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I am not worried about saving the piston they are already bad. Here is a picture of the case opened. I am thinking I can drill a hole in the face of the piston to allow for a socket extension to remove the rod.
_________________ 1969 Beetle
1972 Camper
1977 Beetle (Standard) |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51057 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 1:33 pm Post subject: Re: Removing Piston on frozen engine |
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Can't you reach now that with a box wrench? _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22568 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 1:34 pm Post subject: Re: Removing Piston on frozen engine |
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busdaddy wrote: |
Can't you reach now that with a box wrench? |
Ask Mark Ward.... _________________ .ssS! |
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Ryan P Samba Member
Joined: April 14, 2018 Posts: 228 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 1:42 pm Post subject: Re: Removing Piston on frozen engine |
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busdaddy wrote: |
Can't you reach now that with a box wrench? |
Yes on that side. But the opposite side is a challenge. Look at the above picture down to the right. This is how the other side is. _________________ 1969 Beetle
1972 Camper
1977 Beetle (Standard) |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51057 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 1:47 pm Post subject: Re: Removing Piston on frozen engine |
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Then why not take the 1/2 side of the case right off? Have you tried turning the crank now that it's loose from the case?, which bearing is siezed? _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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Ryan P Samba Member
Joined: April 14, 2018 Posts: 228 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 1:57 pm Post subject: Re: Removing Piston on frozen engine |
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busdaddy wrote: |
Then why not take the 1/2 side of the case right off? Have you tried turning the crank now that it's loose from the case?, which bearing is siezed? |
It is the number 4 rod on the crank. The crank does rotate but with the rod seized on the crank stops it from spinning. The nut you see in the above picture is not the issue that should be easy to get. The issue is the other nut on that rad. It down in-between. Can not see from the picture.
I stepped away for a while will be back at it in a little bit. _________________ 1969 Beetle
1972 Camper
1977 Beetle (Standard) |
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Ryan P Samba Member
Joined: April 14, 2018 Posts: 228 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 3:20 pm Post subject: Re: Removing Piston on frozen engine |
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I will try to better explain the issue. The rod on number 4 is somehow seized on the crank. Both number 2 and 4 are in a position that the wrist pin cannot be removed because it is partially in the case. Even though the crank can rotate with the number 4 rod seized it will not allow the crank to spin. Both 2 and 4 pistons are preventing the case from completely being removed.
Removing the rod nuts on the top side done. The issue is getting to the nuts on the bottom between the crank and the cam. This is why I am thinking drilling a hole through the face of the piston to get to the nut on the bottom side. _________________ 1969 Beetle
1972 Camper
1977 Beetle (Standard) |
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timvw7476 Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2013 Posts: 2182 Location: seattle
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Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 3:32 pm Post subject: Re: Removing Piston on frozen engine |
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it appears that you have the halves separated.
the only thing left is the plastic vibration/centering clips that wrap around the through-case studs, check for those & the right side should pull off.
EDIT: I do see more rod nuts, so put the flywheel on if it's off & rest it on the ground /table & try to fish out the #2 rod if it's got a frozen piston too.
Last edited by timvw7476 on Sat Apr 03, 2021 3:36 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51057 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 3:33 pm Post subject: Re: Removing Piston on frozen engine |
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Ahhhhh...., I wasn't aware #2 piston was still on the rod.
Try and loosen as many rod nuts as you can, then put the flywheel back on finger tight and use a prybar to turn the engine with the starter teeth. Best if you can get the case back together as close as possible without forcing anything first.
Or go with your piston drilling proposal, it's a shame to damage a potentially reuseable German part, but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.
In case you weren't already, make sure you label or bag every part like lifters and pistons so they can go back in the same spots later, pistons should stay matched to barrels and lifters must go back in the same holes if you are recycling them. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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Ryan P Samba Member
Joined: April 14, 2018 Posts: 228 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 3:34 pm Post subject: Re: Removing Piston on frozen engine |
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timvw7476 wrote: |
it appears that you have the halves separated.
the only thing left is the plastic vibration/centering clips that wrap around the through-case studs, check for those & the right side should pull off. |
The case would completely seperate if I could remove number 2 and 4 pistons. _________________ 1969 Beetle
1972 Camper
1977 Beetle (Standard) |
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timvw7476 Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2013 Posts: 2182 Location: seattle
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Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 3:39 pm Post subject: Re: Removing Piston on frozen engine |
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Ryan P wrote: |
timvw7476 wrote: |
it appears that you have the halves separated.
the only thing left is the plastic vibration/centering clips that wrap around the through-case studs, check for those & the right side should pull off. |
The case would completely seperate if I could remove number 2 and 4 pistons. |
sorry, just added to above when I saw this.^
I'd use the flywheel as a pedestal to get to the rod nuts.
Took apart a main bearing seized 1800 many years back somewhat like this.
Still annoyed I tore a tooth off the flywheel trying to lock the crankshaft with a screwdriver...... : ( |
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Ryan P Samba Member
Joined: April 14, 2018 Posts: 228 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 5:48 pm Post subject: Re: Removing Piston on frozen engine |
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I went ahead a drilled the hole in the piston it was now good anyway. I now have both nuts off but the connecting rod is not separating. Number 1 and 3 came right off with a light tap on the stud. The connecting rod does freely spin on the crank. Number 4 is still frozen and once but if I can get number 2 off the case should be free.
Any thoughts on how to separate the connecting rod? I did lightly tap on the stud. _________________ 1969 Beetle
1972 Camper
1977 Beetle (Standard) |
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timvw7476 Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2013 Posts: 2182 Location: seattle
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Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 5:58 pm Post subject: Re: Removing Piston on frozen engine |
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try the pin boss on the underside of the piston. back and forth on each side.
should release with a few taps. |
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22568 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 6:23 pm Post subject: Re: Removing Piston on frozen engine |
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Also get the nuts off the rods on both 2 and 4, they might free up after some TlC. I’m not optimistic about that case though. _________________ .ssS! |
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