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Rostra Cruise Control in Automatic 2.1 ..... attempt # 2
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djkeev
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 11:21 pm    Post subject: Rostra Cruise Control in Automatic 2.1 ..... attempt # 2 Reply with quote

I installed a Rostra Cruise Control in my 1986 2.1 a few years ago.

It was an exercise in frustration!

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8159749

I had removed and saved the main components when my Brother took the Vehicle.

After todays drive to Pa and back to Jersey, I thought having cruise control would be a nice creature comfort to have.
And........
Being a foolish glutton for punishment....... one who doesn't get smarter after experiencing failure.......
I'll be reusing them.

I am making some changes however.

Last time I put magnets on the CV joint for speed sensing.
This time I am using the factory VSS pickup spot on the speedometer.
I'm using GoWesty's aftermarket pickup connector VSS-VANAGON

The VSS pickup ..... GoWesty

https://www.gowesty.com/product/-/23945/gowesty-vehicle-speed-sensor-?v=

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Last time I made a brake pedal disengage switch assembly.
Laziness has set in and I am using GoWesty's disengage switch GVW 811 907 343B

https://www.gowesty.com/product/-/23899/cruise-control-cancelling-switch-?v=

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Last time I used the wired engagement rocker switch.
I had foolishly mounted it on the steering column cover plastic and it was out of sight!
I could only operate it by feel and it was absolutely FRUSTRATING!!!!

This time I am using the universal Rostra stick turn signal stalk mount. It clamps on the older round levers. I will modify the mount to accommodate the squarish VW stalk.
Rostra 250-3002

http://www.rostra.com/aftermarket-cruise-control-switches-by-rostra.php

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


And on my previous attempt I mimicked GoWesty and mounted the actuator so it pulled on the accelerator pedal.
IMHO This produced too much strain and the actuator would cut out randomly.
Yes, I know GoWesty has had success with this mount location but I have not.
They are however smarter than I am too.

I'm going to hook up to the throttle body this time ........ just like VW did.

I wonder about the automatic kick down operation?
I guess I'll find out!
It apparently worked for VW ........

Gathering parts....... will update once I begin the install.

Dave
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 7:07 am    Post subject: Re: Rostra Cruise Control in Automatic 2.1 ..... attempt # 2 Reply with quote

Good timing Dave.

I need to troubleshoot the cruise control on the euroBus and I learned a few things here.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 7:19 am    Post subject: Re: Rostra Cruise Control in Automatic 2.1 ..... attempt # 2 Reply with quote

I've installed the Rostra CC on a couple of cars. Always at the throttle body and they've always operated like I'd expect a factory CC to work (my Vanagon has a Bostig and manual so it's different from your setup but the concepts are the same). Setting the dip switches always takes some time. Also, installing on an OBDII car solves some problems like the speed sensor.

Better luck this time around. Something tells me it's gonna work this time.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:31 am    Post subject: Re: Rostra Cruise Control in Automatic 2.1 ..... attempt # 2 Reply with quote

I have spent he past several days trying to get my GW kit to work (EJ25, manual, VW cruise control stalk). The unit does not seem to respond at all when I try to set it. I ran through the troubleshooting guide from Rostra and tracked it down to the VSS not sending a signal to the unit (still haven't figured it out). Good luck with yours!

If anyone has advice or ideas for me, I'm all ears. As far as I can tell, the GW VSS doesn't seem to be sending pulses to the rostra unit. GW troubleshooting says to connect the VSS to the speedo and check for voltage fluctuations as you manually turn the speedo. I did this with the VSS connected to the CC unit and the key in the "on position" and saw no fluctuation in voltage.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 5:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Rostra Cruise Control in Automatic 2.1 ..... attempt # 2 Reply with quote

No real progress to report, just a lot of figuring and thinking.

I got the Rostra out and started thinking about how to mount it, where to mount it and how to attach to the throttle body.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I will mount the control unit under the back seat.
I read that it makes noise when operating but really? Who is going to notice a little bit more noise!
I'm largely deaf anyway..... no worries.

I will need to extend the electric harness to facilitate the unit being so far in the rear.

I will feed the pull cable over the trans axle and pass under the firewall.

I'd love to use the firewall to anchor the pull cable but with engine movement I doubt that would be effective.
It might be worth a try? How much does the engine really move at a steady speed?

I'll need to create a cable mounting bracket on the auto trans bell housing.

To hook up, I think I'll made a lever that mounts on the pivot above the shaft spring.
Remove that ball lever, replace it with a longer one, make the pull easier and longer.
Or should I go ahead and use that ball?

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Dave
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 5:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Rostra Cruise Control in Automatic 2.1 ..... attempt # 2 Reply with quote

Good luck! I didn't know GW sold a pedal switch. That probably would have saved me some headaches trying to get the mk3 or mk4 and kia switches to work, or whatever the heck I used.

I couldn't locate a vanagon cruise stalk and used one from a mk1 rabbit. It's a little bit shorter but was a straight swap.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 6:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Rostra Cruise Control in Automatic 2.1 ..... attempt # 2 Reply with quote

DeLvxe wrote:
I have spent he past several days trying to get my GW kit to work (EJ25, manual, VW cruise control stalk). The unit does not seem to respond at all when I try to set it. I ran through the troubleshooting guide from Rostra and tracked it down to the VSS not sending a signal to the unit (still haven't figured it out). Good luck with yours!

If anyone has advice or ideas for me, I'm all ears. As far as I can tell, the GW VSS doesn't seem to be sending pulses to the rostra unit. GW troubleshooting says to connect the VSS to the speedo and check for voltage fluctuations as you manually turn the speedo. I did this with the VSS connected to the CC unit and the key in the "on position" and saw no fluctuation in voltage.


I went through 2 gowesty VSS’ and was about to order a third when I read somewhere that they don’t guarantee theirs to work with the Subaru. Checked the website and sure enough they have a disclaimer. I got about a year out of each unit. I went with the one from Fast Forward this time that is specifically built for the Subaru ecu needs. So far so good.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 6:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Rostra Cruise Control in Automatic 2.1 ..... attempt # 2 Reply with quote

I have not been impressed with "engineered in house" GoWe$ty products for a variety of reasons.
Some/many of the VSS sensors available today are poorly designed with poorly selected component characteristics. Add the fact that many are not robust ie not resistant to overvoltage, undervoltage, spikes, reverse polarity etc. As always the stingy man spends the most.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 6:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Rostra Cruise Control in Automatic 2.1 ..... attempt # 2 Reply with quote

Dave- you probably know this but your cruise arm with the ball mount is tweaked downward. level it out, it's maleable, BTDT. i would absolutely look for a way to secure to the engine. the OEM vac actuator mount is a stud on the intake runner but just hose clamp a bar or something to the runner to give you the right angle of approach.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:14 am    Post subject: Re: Rostra Cruise Control in Automatic 2.1 ..... attempt # 2 Reply with quote

DanHoug wrote:
Dave- you probably know this but your cruise arm with the ball mount is tweaked downward. level it out, it's maleable, BTDT. i would absolutely look for a way to secure to the engine. the OEM vac actuator mount is a stud on the intake runner but just hose clamp a bar or something to the runner to give you the right angle of approach.


Thanks!
Right now I'm unsure how to hook up.
I like the idea of finding a socket for that ball.
If I pull from the intake tubes I need to locate the actuator in the engine compartment exposed to the elements.

Pulling from the transaxle side I can have the unit secure and dry.

I'm using this Rostra because I already have it.
It is all but new. I think my previous failure was due to too much linkage and friction to overcome.


Dave
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:43 am    Post subject: Re: Rostra Cruise Control in Automatic 2.1 ..... attempt # 2 Reply with quote

My Rostra is installed where the idle speed ECU used to live. It has been there well over 10 years and remains trouble free.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Rostra Cruise Control in Automatic 2.1 ..... attempt # 2 Reply with quote

DanHoug wrote:
i would absolutely look for a way to secure to the engine. the OEM vac actuator mount is a stud on the intake runner but just hose clamp a bar or something to the runner to give you the right angle of approach.


i'll quote and correct myself... i forgot the Rostra/AudiVox actuators are a cable affair, correct? no need what-so-ever to mount to the engine. that guy quoted above doesn't know what he's talking about!! he was thinking the vac actuator.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Rostra Cruise Control in Automatic 2.1 ..... attempt # 2 Reply with quote

DanHoug wrote:
DanHoug wrote:
i would absolutely look for a way to secure to the engine. the OEM vac actuator mount is a stud on the intake runner but just hose clamp a bar or something to the runner to give you the right angle of approach.


i'll quote and correct myself... i forgot the Rostra/AudiVox actuators are a cable affair, correct? no need what-so-ever to mount to the engine. that guy quoted above doesn't know what he's talking about!! he was thinking the vac actuator.


I was talking about securing the end of the cable sheathing. That should be on the engine.

Dave
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Rostra Cruise Control in Automatic 2.1 ..... attempt # 2 Reply with quote

Today we were pulling out of our driveway, lined with large mature Pine trees, and my Wife said "Stop! Is there a box behind that tree?!"

I backed up and sure enough there was a drenched cardboard box sitting on the house side of the tree!
This tree is eight feet off of my driveway!
It has been raining for two days! Package hide and Go Seek!

Inside the box delivered by UPS (what the heck UPS?) was my new stalk mount Rostra switch!
At least the porch Pirates didn't take it!
Heck? I almost didn't get it either!

Inside the soaked box was a smaller soaked box. Inside of that box was my switch wrapped in a plastic bag..... Whew!
All is well!

Today USPS brought my GoWesty speedo VSS pickup coil and brake switch.

If I had time...... I could install this now.

Stay tuned!

Dave
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:51 am    Post subject: Re: Rostra Cruise Control in Automatic 2.1 ..... attempt # 2 Reply with quote

Having successfully installed the Rostra on my 87 manual 2.1 last spring...My thoughts:

I thought about mounting in the engine compartment. After some deliberation I went with the way that GW did their "kit." Instructions are easy to follow and it greatly simplifies the wiring. It works just peachy.

I have the stubby stalk switch mounted on the steering column cover. It's mounted up above the signal stalk and closer to the dash. It's easily visible and accessible from the side or though the steering wheel (Cuz you're going to be driving in a straight line when you activate it.) The wireless one just looked like it would be a PITA at some point in the future and the flat mount ones looked odd for a car cruise. The one that clamps to the turn signal stalk looks chincy to me.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I connected the Rostra brake deactivate circuit to the + side of the brake light switch on the master cyl. No need for a secondary switch.

Mine is a manual, I don't have a clutch switch...I'm a rebel risk taker...I know.

My settings for the dip switch thread is here: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=736663

Reference it and ask any questions you have. This really isn't that complicated of an install. GW did all the hard work on it. Getting that GW VSS is a HUGE help.
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Last edited by a2wolfsburggli on Tue Apr 13, 2021 1:02 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 9:42 am    Post subject: Re: Rostra Cruise Control in Automatic 2.1 ..... attempt # 2 Reply with quote

Thanks for sharing your Rostra experience mimicking GoWesty.

My first attempt was exactly that procedure.
There is a link to it in the first post for this thread.

OH! ...... The problems I had!
I think there was too much gas pedal friction to overcome with the automatic and the various linkages and pivot points.

It would work for awhile and kick off, no matter the adjustment setting.

I finally removed it.

Not doing that again!

Dave
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 1:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Rostra Cruise Control in Automatic 2.1 ..... attempt # 2 Reply with quote

DeLvxe wrote:
I have spent he past several days trying to get my GW kit to work (EJ25, manual, VW cruise control stalk). The unit does not seem to respond at all when I try to set it. I ran through the troubleshooting guide from Rostra and tracked it down to the VSS not sending a signal to the unit (still haven't figured it out). Good luck with yours!

If anyone has advice or ideas for me, I'm all ears. As far as I can tell, the GW VSS doesn't seem to be sending pulses to the rostra unit. GW troubleshooting says to connect the VSS to the speedo and check for voltage fluctuations as you manually turn the speedo. I did this with the VSS connected to the CC unit and the key in the "on position" and saw no fluctuation in voltage.


The first VSS I got was off a junker Mk2 VW. I had the same problem. The VSS for what ever reason was shot.

This looks like it's a warranty with GoWe$ty or buy a new one. They're only $30. One of the few GW products that isn't overpriced IMHO.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 1:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Rostra Cruise Control in Automatic 2.1 ..... attempt # 2 Reply with quote

djkeev wrote:

I read that it makes noise when operating but really? Who is going to notice a little bit more noise!
I'm largely deaf anyway..... no worries.


Dave


You'll never hear it under the rear bench. I can't hardly hear mine under the dash. Only slightly when it's setting up and when it releases.

If I was to mount mine in the rear it would be under the bench or in the tail light cubby.

No matter where, make sure the dip switch window is easily accessible for adjustments.

They're very weather resistant. I've been running one on my Yamaha FJR motorcycle for 6+ years. It's fully exposed to direct engine heat and in and area that takes direct rain / road moisture. (Ok.. technically I just sold the FJR, and I'm installing another Rostra on my R1200GSA this coming weekend / week.)
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:11 am    Post subject: Re: Rostra Cruise Control in Automatic 2.1 ..... attempt # 2 Reply with quote

I mostly followed the Rosta manual. I did look at GoWesty's recommendations for the switch adjustments which were helpful.

I have the control unit installed in the left side of the engine. It is difficult to adjust the switches in this position.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I was fortunate enough to have some existing pieces to use for this installation. This shows the cable routed from the lower left hand corner to the throttle body. The cable is fixed at a bent plate mounted to the engine-transmission bolt. I also used the existing attachment at the throttle body which had a bolt hole.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Getting the slack adjusted was most critical since full throttle is required. I have never had the transmission kick-down but my driving is mostly freeway so I would rarely be going slow enough.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Rostra Cruise Control in Automatic 2.1 ..... attempt # 2 Reply with quote

I've installed several cruise controls over the years. The Zemco cruise control I installed in my '87 Syncro in about 1992 failed years ago after maybe 10-12 good years. I'd been longing for cruise control again since.

I put this Rostra (like djkeev) in my '87 Syncro a couple years ago. I saw what GoWesty offered and thinking it was too expensive, decided to "roll my own". Used partly Rostra instructions and partly GoWesty's.

I felt the real beauty of the electric control and GoWesty's plan was that nothing goes in the engine compartment and you don't need to run any wires from the engine to the dash.

So, I removed the last remnants of the old Zemco and replaced with the Rostra system. I made my own switch brackets for the clutch and the brake, a few other bits and adapted wiring and made a bracket to mount the switch atop the steering column, but up in a nice handy and visible place. Used the GoWesty VSS on the back of the speedometer.

In the end it all worked fine, but if I were to do it again, I'd spend the extra $$ for the GW kit since I spent WAY more time coming up with my own solutions than I expected I would. I probably made about $4.50 an hour trading my time for money saved.

Jim Davis
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