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Gonzaga13 Samba Member
Joined: February 14, 2018 Posts: 21
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Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 6:45 pm Post subject: Is line boring this case even an option? |
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Newbie here looking to glean some wisdom from the veterans.
I helped a buddy install a new engine in his bus, in return he said I could have the old engine. The bus was a recent purchase and all he knew was that the engine had been recently rebuilt and had a pretty major oil leak. Before removing the engine, which started and ran well, we verified that the engine had a pretty major oil leak at the rear main seal.
A few things I noticed as I was tearing down the engine on the stand. Brand new oil cooler. The pushrod tubes were almost new-looking. Several of the case bolts were still silver. Barely worn newish clutch.
When I crack open the case It was obvious that there was a major issue with the front (closest to the transmission) main bearing. There has been so much endplay that the flywheel actually machined a groove in the case (see pictures).
All other bearings seem OK. Valvetrain looks good, rod bearings tight. As far as I can tell the case is in good shape. I'll know more once I clean it and do a proper inspection but I want to find out from you guys if there is even enough metal left to Line bore and buy oversized main bearings?
If I could line bore, put some oversize bearings in and get 20K miles out of it I would be stoke. I'd love to keep this project under $400.
So...Here are my questions:
1. Is there enough metal left to line bore?
2. If so, how do I tell what bearings to buy?
3. Is this something a local machine shop can handle (Santa Barbara, Ca.) or do I need to take this to a VW specialist?
4. Are those case savers in the stud holes?
5. What am I missing (assuming I only want to put her back together and run it for a year or two. local miles only)?
Thanks to everybody that responses in advance.
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evanfrucht Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2016 Posts: 2180 Location: Laurel Canyon, CA
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Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 7:17 pm Post subject: Re: Is line boring this case even an option? |
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That looks pounded pretty bad. I think there was something else going on but really not sure.
It might be able to be line bored, it really depends as it needs to be measured. A local machine shop could do it.
Santa Barbara isn't too far, if you are able to come down to the LA area I know a good shop in Hawthorn, CA called European motorworks. They also ship all over and build engines. They specialize in Type 4s but also know Type 1s very well. Not only do they do great work, they are also cheaper than Rimco or Brothers. I would NOT use Rimco for various reasons I wont get into.
You might find a shop in Santa Barbara but I would try to find one who specializes in old VW's or atleast knows them very well. Call around _________________ 1967 Bug ( the daily rod )
1964 Fury Wagon ( the pavement shredder ) |
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esde Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2007 Posts: 5967 Location: central rust belt
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Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 7:53 pm Post subject: Re: Is line boring this case even an option? |
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Was there a dowel locating that bearing? The first thing I thought was that it looks like the bearing has been spinning in the case.
No doubt Gex would fix it, but I think it looks pretty dismal. _________________ modok wrote:
Bent cranks are silent but gather no moss. I mean, ah, something like that. |
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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26776 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:47 am Post subject: Re: Is line boring this case even an option? |
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Just from eyeballing it...pretty sure....it's past what is NORMALLy considerd repairable.
If the case is in excellent shape otherwise it still might be useful for one thing or another.
Some people would say that's highly unlikely, and it is, but it can happen.
At this extreme level of looseness it would certainly be leaking a lot of oil, making weird noises, feeling vibrations, the crank visibly loose in the engine, ect..... but sometimes people just kept feeding it more oil, and kept driving, until the crank nearly falls out of the engine, and this is what happens.
so it "could" have "only" 60,000 miles on it, but probably not. probably not. |
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GARRICK.CLARK Samba Member
Joined: June 30, 2012 Posts: 1267 Location: Lancashire UK
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Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:40 am Post subject: Re: Is line boring this case even an option? |
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A crank case inspection needs to include all areas of the case.
E.G.
1 Look for cracks
2 Corrosion
3 Cam bores
4 Stripped threads
5 Sprung centre main saddle etc
I've had people bring cases with fresh align bore jobs only for me to tell them that the case is scrap. It takes a lot of time to determine if a case is good enough to be worked on.
I'm considering not using old cases.
I also see people spending big on cranks, rods etc and using 3rd align bore cases.
It's like putting...
The Queen's foot into a tramps sock. |
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FreeBug Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2012 Posts: 4278 Location: deepest, darkest Switzerland
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Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:48 am Post subject: Re: Is line boring this case even an option? |
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Was that 2nd drainage hole added? How bad had this thing been leaking? I think that if you wanted to save that, you'd have to come up with some sort of "magic". Not impossible, but not easy. |
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Alstrup Samba Member
Joined: July 12, 2007 Posts: 7210 Location: Videbaek Denmark
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Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 5:00 am Post subject: Re: Is line boring this case even an option? |
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GARRICK.CLARK wrote: |
It's like putting...
The Queen's foot into a tramps sock. |
And I´m pretty sure she wouldnt like that _________________ https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=435993 |
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Brian_e Samba Member
Joined: July 28, 2009 Posts: 3285 Location: Rapid City, SD
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Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:29 am Post subject: Re: Is line boring this case even an option? |
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I had a similar case, and it is now an experiment 1835cc, going strong with about 5000 miles on it now in 2 different buses, and a bug now.
Mine ended up with 3 different OD main bearings, some JBweld, and a few other sins. It was an experiment, I do my own machining, and I wanted to see if it would work. It was all extra parts out of the shed.
If you are hoping for something you can depend on, or last a long time, find a different case. That one obviously had a very rough life.
I would guess a set of .080 bearings might clean it up, but most people line boring cases won't take the time to make sure they are perfect, especially at that size.
Mine has a .080" #1, .060 #2, and .040" #3&4. Great oil pressure, no leaks, and makes really good power.
Brian _________________ www.type-emotorsports.com |
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raydog Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2006 Posts: 1163 Location: Cape Cod
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Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:36 am Post subject: Re: Is line boring this case even an option? |
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I vote for tossing it. That's pretty hammered. _________________ Come on, It's not rocket science. KISS |
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Ohio Tom Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2006 Posts: 1660 Location: Marshallville Ohio
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Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:05 pm Post subject: Re: Is line boring this case even an option? |
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That thrust is super pounded.
I don't think a +2 thrust will fix it neither.
Time to retire that case... |
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Gonzaga13 Samba Member
Joined: February 14, 2018 Posts: 21
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Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:21 pm Post subject: Re: Is line boring this case even an option? |
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Thanks for all the feedback, I appreciate the wisdom.
I am half tempted to tear it down, clean it up, and if the rest of the case is OK, try and align bore it. (assuming I can find a machine shop that will do it).
It is mostly just for fun, cuz I'm bored, a little (lot) stupid, and a glutton for punishment.
Question: What is the largest bearing sold, which I'm guessing will determine how much metal I can remove? |
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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26776 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:29 pm Post subject: Re: Is line boring this case even an option? |
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2mm over OD and 2mm narrower thrust is usually the largest made.
A few companies made a 2.5 oversize in the past, but you would have to hunt for them. Repco I think made them.
The standard bore is 65mm, and the width 22mm |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12701 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:44 pm Post subject: Re: Is line boring this case even an option? |
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Years ago Dad and I pulled an engine apart for parts and it had a BRASS #1 main bearing. Obviously hand made. Looked exactly like the real McCoy but solid brass! There was no extra end or axial play either so even though it looked odd it obviously worked! I wonder if it was because of a situation like this?
I think I still have it somewhere... it would be fun to measure it. _________________ We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26776 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:50 pm Post subject: Re: Is line boring this case even an option? |
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That's cool
With the right kind of bearing bronze it should work just fine.
Only thing I can think more hardcore than that..... is you melt the old bearings and cast that a new one. |
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Gonzaga13 Samba Member
Joined: February 14, 2018 Posts: 21
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Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 7:28 pm Post subject: Re: Is line boring this case even an option? |
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So close...
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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26776 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:26 pm Post subject: Re: Is line boring this case even an option? |
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Yep, thrust is.....gone
Possibly the calibration of that gradeschooler ruler may be due for re-certification, but it kinda looks like it WAS standard size. |
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Gonzaga13 Samba Member
Joined: February 14, 2018 Posts: 21
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Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:31 pm Post subject: Re: Is line boring this case even an option? |
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Hey...I resemble that comment
This is an ISO 1642:001 Certified Measuring Devise |
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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26776 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:35 pm Post subject: Re: Is line boring this case even an option? |
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Nothing personal, I am contractually obligated by the machinists code to make a wise crack in this situation. |
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Onceler Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2010 Posts: 1646 Location: Indiana
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Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:51 pm Post subject: Re: Is line boring this case even an option? |
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The pic.’s are very hi def though, nice _________________ 1972 Karmann Ghia |
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croSSeduP Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2004 Posts: 1106 Location: Western Washington State
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Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:10 pm Post subject: Re: Is line boring this case even an option? |
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I'd NEVER reuse a case like that. It's not just that it's pounded out, you have to think of the reasons it's pounded that badly. Magnesium is not a sturdy material. If you overheat it too many times it will lose it's original rigidity because it's breaking down molecularly. In my world that case is junk. _________________ Please check my '67 sedan project progress!
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=502253&highlight= |
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