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mark tucker
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009
Posts: 23937
Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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 Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:38 am Post subject: Re: Sta- Bil Reactions |
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Ive never had a issue with it. BUT...I called my wofe and told her to bring home a bottle( she sells it,by the sea shore  in the west marine store) well she grabbed some enzime shit....it was a tad cheeper...or some kinda shit like that....I dodnt bother reading the label just poiured it in.and it went to work. it effed up every chain saw I have withen 10- 30 min run time. it pretty much disagrnerated all the fule lines.no telling what it did to the carbs. the fuel lines were 3 days old on 3 of the 5 of the chain saws. I had been useing each one with different chains to see what chain seems to be the best.( for any body intested there is a austrailan company that makes the best chains. and they are about 2x the china chain price.there very sharp, they stay sharp, they streach a little at first then dont seem to need any more adjusting at all!! I get them off ebay there is a importer there.) so I was using all the saws tuned them all up changed 2 carbs. all ran awesome...till I put that fuel in that had the enzime shit in it...now...I have no chain saws that run.and it's a pain in the ass to change all the fuel lines and who knows what it did to the carbs.I used the right amout of additive in fresh fuel.Im oh so gladd I didnt put it in my 4 wheeler or lawn mower. I think the issue is the type of fuel hoses the chain saws use. but not sure. I had very little left to cut.so I got out the old electric chain saw and finished up what I could. so saty away from enzime fuel shit!!! I think it was startron but not positive. good old staibill is the way to go. hell Ive started generators that hadent been run in 8 years or more with stabill and they ran great. |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21513
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:47 pm Post subject: Re: Sta- Bil Reactions |
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| mark tucker wrote: |
| Ive never had a issue with it. BUT...I called my wofe and told her to bring home a bottle( she sells it,by the sea shore in the west marine store) well she grabbed some enzime shit....it was a tad cheeper...or some kinda shit like that....I dodnt bother reading the label just poiured it in.and it went to work. it effed up every chain saw I have withen 10- 30 min run time. it pretty much disagrnerated all the fule lines.no telling what it did to the carbs. the fuel lines were 3 days old on 3 of the 5 of the chain saws. I had been useing each one with different chains to see what chain seems to be the best.( for any body intested there is a austrailan company that makes the best chains. and they are about 2x the china chain price.there very sharp, they stay sharp, they streach a little at first then dont seem to need any more adjusting at all!! I get them off ebay there is a importer there.) so I was using all the saws tuned them all up changed 2 carbs. all ran awesome...till I put that fuel in that had the enzime shit in it...now...I have no chain saws that run.and it's a pain in the ass to change all the fuel lines and who knows what it did to the carbs.I used the right amout of additive in fresh fuel.Im oh so gladd I didnt put it in my 4 wheeler or lawn mower. I think the issue is the type of fuel hoses the chain saws use. but not sure. I had very little left to cut.so I got out the old electric chain saw and finished up what I could. so saty away from enzime fuel shit!!! I think it was startron but not positive. good old staibill is the way to go. hell Ive started generators that hadent been run in 8 years or more with stabill and they ran great. |
You mean this stuff? I found this enzyme treatment on the West Marine site.
https://www.westmarine.com/buy/star-brite--star-tron-diesel-additive-8-oz--5617790?recordNum=11
Its for diesel!
That 8 oz bottle treats 256 gallons! The enzyme part of that additive is used to keep diesel fuel from turning into sludge from biological growth ....which is common in diesel and kerosene.
Yes....it could eat chainsaw and small engine fuel line depending on what is being used. Ray |
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Zundfolge1432 
Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2004
Posts: 12467
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| Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 3:02 pm Post subject: Re: Sta- Bil Reactions |
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| Education is the best teacher isn’t it? |
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db69
Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2013
Posts: 419
Location: east TN
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| Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 3:35 pm Post subject: Re: Sta- Bil Reactions |
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| Zundfolge1432 wrote: |
| Education is the best teacher isn’t it? |
Nope...experience is! You might forget what you read but you don’t forget when you eff up 3 chainsaws. |
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FarmerBill
Samba Member
Joined: July 25, 2017
Posts: 766
Location: New England
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| Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 7:34 am Post subject: Re: Sta- Bil Reactions |
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| raygreenwood wrote: |
The only reason we have as much as 10%....is due to the actions of the ethanol lobby.
It causes all kinds of issues. Ray |
I couldn't agree more. When I worked in the ski industry management switched our fuel for our snowmobiles from 100% gasoline to 10% ethanol. We told them that you shouldn't run ethanol in 2-stroke engines but they had already signed the contract. By January every sled had a big chunk of ice floating in the fuel tank. Anytime a machine was brought into the warm shop for a few hours the tank would have to be pumped out to clear the water after the ice melted.
The best you can do is find a product that will help keep the water in suspension, instead of settling out to the bottom of your tank/fuel bowls. |
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mark tucker
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009
Posts: 23937
Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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| Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:55 pm Post subject: Re: Sta- Bil Reactions |
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| no it wasent the diesel stuff.they had a gass one too. |
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74 Thing
Samba Member
Joined: September 02, 2004
Posts: 7390
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| Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 1:51 pm Post subject: Re: Sta- Bil Reactions |
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This stuff?
http://www.starbrite.com/category/fuel-additives
What is a good additive to keep the water floating around with ethanol so it does not separate and settle on the bottom or is it just best to run the gas tanks down so the damn water gets out? |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21513
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 7:21 am Post subject: Re: Sta- Bil Reactions |
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| 74 Thing wrote: |
This stuff?
http://www.starbrite.com/category/fuel-additives
What is a good additive to keep the water floating around with ethanol so it does not separate and settle on the bottom or is it just best to run the gas tanks down so the damn water gets out? |
Ah!.....my bad.....I did not dig far enough to rind the gas version.
I personally would not trust that product.....not because it might not work......but because I hate the combination of "nebulous" marketing hype.....hiding behind the relatively new ability to not have to list a single damn ingredient unless its on the hazardous list....which started January 2015.
Enzymes....are biological, chemical reaction catalysts. What enzyme are they using? Whats its function?
Yeah....the right enzyme can help break down sludge, varnish and other compounds that are created in fuels and lubricants due to chemical reactions over time and temperature or from contamination.
By the way.....as a catalyst.....these same enzymes can just as easily catalyze chemical reactions between plastics, metals and chemicals they come in contact with.
If we are just talking about the ability to absorb or bind with water....and keep that water bound up and suspended so it can work its way through the system ti get burned in the engine.....really.....its hard to beat the "HEET" brand fuel system dryer in the YELLOW BOTTLE.
The yellow bottle is mostly methanol. It is for four stroke gasoline engines ONLY. Methanol absorbs and contains a much higher volume of water than Isopropyl alcohol.
The red bottle HEET product is mostly Isopropyl alcohol added to an emulsifying agent. It is for two and four stroke diesel engines. While you could pour the red bottle ISO-HEET into a gas engine and it would not hurt it.....you cannot ...or should not....pour the yellow bottle HEET into a diesel gas tank.
Why?.....because diesel fuel is an emulsifying fuel. It has to form an emulsion to behave properly. Adding methanol to it breaks that emulsion and creates very poor vaporization and combustion. The isopropyl alcohol does some of this as well....which is why they have an added fuel emulsifier in the red bottle ISO-HEET.
I dont know what others have seen where they live.....but I have not yet seen ethanol blended "e-diesel" being sold. I have read lots of R&D studies.....15% blended e-diesel can drop particulates by about 50%.....drop C02.....has lots of benefits.....but also no longer makes the diesel an explosion safe fuel.....and requires a total redesign of the fuel cycle.....and usually a dual injection or fogger system with two fuel tanks.....otherwise just blending ethanol with diesel causes severe fuel stratification. It wont stay blended.
Ray |
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vwracerdave
Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004
Posts: 15303
Location: Deep in the 405
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| Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 8:04 am Post subject: Re: Sta- Bil Reactions |
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| db69 wrote: |
| Zundfolge1432 wrote: |
| Education is the best teacher isn’t it? |
Nope...experience is! You might forget what you read but you don’t forget when you eff up 3 chainsaws. |
Any fool can make a mistake. Wise men learn from the mistakes of fools.
_________________
2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK
Featured in Dec. 2001 HOT VW's Magazine page 63
Watch my racing video's http://www.youtube.com/user/okvwracer/videos |
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FarmerBill
Samba Member
Joined: July 25, 2017
Posts: 766
Location: New England
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| Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:54 am Post subject: Re: Sta- Bil Reactions |
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| 74 Thing wrote: |
What is a good additive to keep the water floating around with ethanol so it does not separate and settle on the bottom or is it just best to run the gas tanks down so the damn water gets out? |
I would recommend “Ethanol Shield” brand. It’s main chemical is 2-butoxyethanol, a surfactant that they spray on oil spills in water to keep the oil from forming a slick on top. It works by breaking surface tension so layers can’t form. It works great in my gas tractors. I can leave them all winter in an un-heated, un-insulated shed and get no water separation. A sediment bowl will show you really quickly if you have water in your fuel (or under your fuel to be more precise), and I can say since I started using this stuff water in the carbs hasn’t been a problem. |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21513
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 7:22 am Post subject: Re: Sta- Bil Reactions |
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| FarmerBill wrote: |
| 74 Thing wrote: |
What is a good additive to keep the water floating around with ethanol so it does not separate and settle on the bottom or is it just best to run the gas tanks down so the damn water gets out? |
I would recommend “Ethanol Shield” brand. It’s main chemical is 2-butoxyethanol, a surfactant that they spray on oil spills in water to keep the oil from forming a slick on top. It works by breaking surface tension so layers can’t form. It works great in my gas tractors. I can leave them all winter in an un-heated, un-insulated shed and get no water separation. A sediment bowl will show you really quickly if you have water in your fuel (or under your fuel to be more precise), and I can say since I started using this stuff water in the carbs hasn’t been a problem. |
Have to look at that one. Thanks for the reference. I have been wondering about a handful of products whose function is to negate or protect against ethanol.
One point.....2-butoxyethanol....is not actually a "surfactant". But I know what you are getting at. In many places on the web its listed a......."a modest surfactant". Wikipedia even states that in many places it used for its surfactant properties......which is true.....but its actuappt used in more places because its a "glycol ether".
Calling it a surfactant is kind of a "misonomer". Because it can have SOME of the effects of an actual surfactant......people assume that it is.
2-butoxyethanol is actually a SOLVENT. Its a major constituent in modern antifreeze and deicing solutions.
But its function is more as an ionic bonding agent. Looking at its structure.....it has an affinity for bonding or pairing with.....ethanol.......AND......its water miscible (its soluble in water)......and also in most organic solvents.
It binds up with water and alcohol....and dissolves straight into gasoline.
So.....its not that its limited surfactant quality change the surface tension.....its the fact that it literally bonds with EVERYTHING in the gasoline. The ethanol will now have molecular bonds connected everywhere.....so it cannot fall out of suspension and "stratify" into layers.
Sounds like very smart chemistry. If you look at its wikipedia listing......under other chemical names (synonyms) .....8 of the 15 chemical names they list (and there are many more).......are/were actually created specifically for the printing/imaging/ink industries as mixing/blending/binder solvents.
When you scroll down to "USES" in the Wiki deacription.....you will see the term "MUTUAL SOLVENT".....which is what I was describing above. It pretty much bonds mutually with almost everything.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2-Butoxyethanol
This stuff is all ovef the place in every plant I go into. Ray |
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FarmerBill
Samba Member
Joined: July 25, 2017
Posts: 766
Location: New England
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| Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:09 am Post subject: Re: Sta- Bil Reactions |
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So, not a surfactant in the true meaning of the word (lowering the surface tension between liquids), but sometimes called a surfactant because it behaves as one by doing something completely different (bonding with everything to keep everything in suspension). This is why I love the Samba, learn something new every day. 
I was recommended this stuff by a petroleum products salesman some years ago, and since he didn't sell it himself I figured it was the real deal. He described it as a surfactant maybe because he knew that was a term farmers knew and understood, we use surfactants in pesticide/herbicide applications all the time. Anyway it seems to work to keep the water from causing damage, as far as its claims about protecting fuel hoses and other rubber parts I don't know. I replaced all my rubber fuel parts with Viton or similar long ago. |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21513
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:57 am Post subject: Re: Sta- Bil Reactions |
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| FarmerBill wrote: |
So, not a surfactant in the true meaning of the word (lowering the surface tension between liquids), but sometimes called a surfactant because it behaves as one by doing something completely different (bonding with everything to keep everything in suspension). This is why I love the Samba, learn something new every day.
I was recommended this stuff by a petroleum products salesman some years ago, and since he didn't sell it himself I figured it was the real deal. He described it as a surfactant maybe because he knew that was a term farmers knew and understood, we use surfactants in pesticide/herbicide applications all the time. Anyway it seems to work to keep the water from causing damage, as far as its claims about protecting fuel hoses and other rubber parts I don't know. I replaced all my rubber fuel parts with Viton or similar long ago. |
Yep!....its kind of like when you are looking at WATER.
Its described as the "universal solvent" because so many chemicals will eventually dissolve into it....eventually. Meaning....sooner or later as either teh water or chemical starts to break down...setting loose hydrogen and oxygen....you get new reactions...and oxidization...and hydrogenation.
Water also can be described as a surfactant....because when whatever you add it to already has the right constituent ingredients...and water has its own surface tension and its own PH...it van alter what you add it to just like a surfactant.
So technically water is neither a solvent or a surfactant. One might say it can perform as either because its a "reactant" or reagent.
The glycol ethers like 2-butoxyethanol.....are by design....solvents....but their unique properties can cause them to act like a surfactant when added with certain other chemicals. Ray |
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