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Double-Double Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2019 Posts: 640 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:44 am Post subject: Double-Double's Berrien Buggy Build Thread |
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Hi guys, long time no see, finally getting back into the VW game after a 6 month absence. I sold my class-11 Style in November and still have that air-cooled knowledge in my head and would like to put it to use. Here is my previous build thread. https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=727076
I'm not getting any younger and I would like to start a 60's style dune buggy build. I am looking at the prospect of a long term build with all fresh parts....
My plan is as follows:
Berrien Nostalgia IRS/Ball Joint Chassis with low mount weld on battery tray
Berrien Nostalgia Body in Deep Marine Blue Metal Flake (going with a retro 60's color)
Berrien Fiberglass Floorpan (I will raptor liner this in black)
Strictly Foreign Super Street Freeway Flier IRS Transmission
1835 Engine with new everything (Thick Cylinder Walls)
Rebel Wire Wiring Harness with ATO Fuses
Karmann Ghia Front Suspension with Disc Brakes
Drums in Rear for Parking Brake
Skinnies up front and Fatties in the Rear
Let me know if you have any suggestions, secrets, tips, etc... before I order these parts to get started so I don't mess up. I look forward to taking my time and having a relaxing build. _________________ “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me. For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it.”
—Matthew 16:24–25 |
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vwracerdave Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004 Posts: 15302 Location: Deep in the 405
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Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:41 pm Post subject: Re: Double-Double's Berrien Buggy Build Thread |
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Couple thoughts on wheels & tires. You don't want 'skinnies" on the front of a light Dunebuggy with disc brakes, they will just lock up. If your want the 135's or 145's up front I'd keep stock late drums and add larger Type III rear brakes on back. If you really want front disc I'd look at little wider tire maybe 205/60's up front. I have no problems stopping my 1350 Lb. Dunebuggy with all 4 stock 4 lug drum brakes
I'd look at 28" 275/60-15's on rear. Buggies just look so much cooler with a taller & wider rear tire. With the taller 28" rear tires I'd run a 4.37 R&P with .93 4th gear. That'll get you 75 MPH at 3650 RPM's. You don't need to go any faster because the lightweigt buggy will start to wonder and drift with strong winds and big truck side drafts.
You'll wish you had just a little bit more HP with the 1835cc. Build the 92's with a 74 or 76 crank and dual IDF's. _________________ 2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK
Featured in Dec. 2001 HOT VW's Magazine page 63
Watch my racing video's http://www.youtube.com/user/okvwracer/videos |
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Double-Double Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2019 Posts: 640 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:54 pm Post subject: Re: Double-Double's Berrien Buggy Build Thread |
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Good feedback Dave, I appreciate the helpful comments. I guess I didn’t realize that you can buy the aluminum cases preclearenced for the larger cranks. I am fairly committed to using the thick wall cylinders though because I have a distinct possibility of moving to the south and want all the cooling I can get.
Would a proportioning valve work on the master cylinder to keep from locking up the front brakes?
I think I was leaning towards a 30” rear tire because I like the cartoonish look of a pretty huge rear tire and substantially smaller front. _________________ “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me. For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it.”
—Matthew 16:24–25 |
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weasel_ugs Samba Member
Joined: March 16, 2012 Posts: 721 Location: Prescott Valley,Az.
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Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 6:28 pm Post subject: Re: Double-Double's Berrien Buggy Build Thread |
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Double-Double wrote: |
Good feedback Dave, I appreciate the helpful comments. I guess I didn’t realize that you can buy the aluminum cases preclearenced for the larger cranks. I am fairly committed to using the thick wall cylinders though because I have a distinct possibility of moving to the south and want all the cooling I can get.
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I live in Arizona have have no cooling issues running 94x69. |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12701 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 5:12 am Post subject: Re: Double-Double's Berrien Buggy Build Thread |
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Remember that anytime you change tire height from stock you change the effectiveness of the brakes. Going to littles and bigs will shift the brake bias forward big time. The shorter your wheels and tire profile is the lower the effort required to lock up the tires.
Ideally all 4 tires will lock up at the same moment but this is virtually impossible to achieve in all conditions. The safest way is to have the fronts lock just before the rears. It gives the most predictable handling response. For street driving you do not want the rears to lock first or the rear of the car will try to pass the front making it difficult to keep your car under control.
There are many variables that effect brake balance. Tire compound, weight distribution, suspension stiffness, weight transfer, brake type(drum vs disc), road surface and weather all play a part so getting the perfect balance is not realistic.
I personally do not like the idea of drum fronts and disc rears because of drum brake fade. If you are ever in a situation to need the brake on hard for an extended stop (down a mountain pass for instance) you could find yourself with rear brakes only!
I am also very doubtful about using a proportioning valve on the front to limit front brake pressure. Maybe I don't understand fully how they work but I would be afraid that when you need to brake hard that the brake bias would shift too far to the rear. I am not aware of any factory car that has them in the front brake circuit. It's always in the rear to my knowledge. Correct me if I am wrong on this one. _________________ We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
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dustymojave Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2007 Posts: 5802 Location: Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
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Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 5:13 pm Post subject: Re: Double-Double's Berrien Buggy Build Thread |
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Double-Double wrote: |
Good feedback Dave, I appreciate the helpful comments. I guess I didn’t realize that you can buy the aluminum cases preclearenced for the larger cranks. I am fairly committed to using the thick wall cylinders though because I have a distinct possibility of moving to the south and want all the cooling I can get.
Would a proportioning valve work on the master cylinder to keep from locking up the front brakes?
I think I was leaning towards a 30” rear tire because I like the cartoonish look of a pretty huge rear tire and substantially smaller front. |
To me, "thick-wall" cylinders are there to deal with a problem of cheap cylinders available in the late 1960s and early 1970s. That no-name maker went away by the time I was out of high school. And I'm retired now. Those cylinders that had troubles were packed in brown cardboard boxes with no brand name on them.
I bought a set of 92s for my 1835 in 1974. Mahle brand (an OEM to VW throuhghout the life of VW Bugs). I just put them (those same 1974 cylinders and pistons) into a fresh rebuild of an 1835 for my Baja Bug last summer. They've now been in 3 different cars. My 1965 Baja. My HiJumper buggy you see in my avatar in a pic from a race in 1983 that I won. Won a Championship using those same cylinders and pistons. They were in my Hi Jumper from 1978 until recently. And now they're in my '58 Baja. Still fine. NEVER had any overheating trouble. Haven't even worn them out. Rings replaced a couple times with fresh Total Seals. All of the cars have been used hard. In the '65 Baja and the Hi Jumper, I used an external oil cooler. With the '58 Baja, I use a DogHouse cooler plus the same external cooler I used on the '65 Bug. All of the external coolers have NOT had any fan.
The rumors and "Sky is falling" fears of "thin wall cylinders" is old wive's tales. Downright antique stuff.
I have a 1915 engine that came in a Chenowth Buggy I recently bought. Those 94 cylinders are thinner at the head stud grooves than my old 92s. But I'm not worried about them. I've used 90.5s in a few engines. Same wall thickness as my 92s except at the case and head, which is where it doesn't matter.
I've built engines for several friend's Baja Bugs, race buggies, and pre-runners using Mahle 92s. They've ALL lasted for many years, still going without re-build when the cars were sold off.
In ALL of my years of VW use on and offroad, I've NEVER seen any trouble from "thinwall" 92 cylinders. I only heard about them and saw the cylinders and pistons in a shop back when I was building my 1st Baja. I was warned about them then. Never seen them since.
As long as you buy Mahle, Cima, AA, or Scat brand pistons and cylinders, you should NEVER have a problem with them. _________________ Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet. |
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clonebug Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2005 Posts: 4027 Location: NW Washington
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Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 7:13 pm Post subject: Re: Double-Double's Berrien Buggy Build Thread |
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I run fatties in the back and skinnies in the front along with discs on all fours.....I love my disc brakes.
If you try reallllly hard you can get the fronts to chirp but I have to say the pluses outweigh the minuses.
I also feel the best tire is a 275/60-15 for looks and gearing. I can do 70 mph at 3100 rpm and do it all day if needed. I use a 67 transaxle with 4.12 R/P.
I do have lots of hp so the higher gearing doesn't effect me. I did run a stock dual carbed 1600 with those tires and never felt there was an issue as long as I stayed below 65-70 mph. There just wasn't enough poop to push it over 80 mph due to the buggy windshield putting up a lot of wind resistance.
Build it the way you want it.... it will work fine....if it doesn't you have a nice upgrade project for your first winter since buggies are made to be upgraded........I've done upgrades almost every winter since I built it in 2004. _________________
vwracerdave wrote: |
Take a good long look in the mirror and report back on what you see. |
Paul.H wrote: |
That one line on that chart is probably better info than you can get from this place in a month |
My Megasquirt Fuel Injection Turbo Buggy Build
Water/Alcohol Injection
Audi TT intercooler
Upgraded to MS3Pro-Evo
EcuMaster PMU16
ECUMaster ADU5 Digital Dash
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=127936 |
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Dan the workingstiff Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2006 Posts: 824 Location: Downriver, MI
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Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:02 am Post subject: Re: Double-Double's Berrien Buggy Build Thread |
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Welcome back, you do nice detailed work. _________________ '69 Beetle
'66 FG buggy
My other air-cooled's
'76 IH 1200
'75 IH 1200 |
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