Author |
Message |
JSlate Samba Member
Joined: March 22, 2015 Posts: 15 Location: Florida
|
Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:16 pm Post subject: Newbie Help - Air flow meter and fuel injectors |
|
|
Hey everyone,
I was hoping someone may be able to help me troubleshoot my engine problems. It seems related to the air mass handler, but I am not sure what to do next. From the video, you can see these terms dont roll off the tongue for me
Hopefully someone can point me in the right direction.
Thank you!
Link
Last edited by JSlate on Wed Apr 07, 2021 3:37 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top |
|
|
djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32574 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
khughes Samba Member
Joined: July 13, 2013 Posts: 747 Location: Phoenix AZ
|
Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:59 pm Post subject: Re: Newbie Help - Air mass handler and fuel injectors |
|
|
So what was done to it to get it to where it is? How about a little history of what happened when? _________________ '86 Westy FAS GenV Turbo (Marvin) |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Igeo Samba Member
Joined: September 25, 2018 Posts: 888 Location: Oakland, CA
|
Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:59 pm Post subject: Re: Newbie Help - Air mass handler and fuel injectors |
|
|
The big slotted (bypass) screw on the throttle body just opens or closes a restriction and simply lets more air past the butterfly (screwed out- more air- higher idle speed), or less air (screwed in- lower idle speed). Its basiclally an adjustable vacuum leak. It only allows small changes in idle speed. That's not your issue. Screw it in until it gently bottoms, then back it out a half turn or so and move on.
I'm hearing a weak battery, a dragging starter or an engine with too much initial ignition advance. That also is probabaly not your trouble, but shoud be investigated.
I would check the throttle switch adjustment:
https://youtu.be/eTphzNgG5ns _________________ 1987 Westfalia 2.1 WBX Manual |
|
Back to top |
|
|
JSlate Samba Member
Joined: March 22, 2015 Posts: 15 Location: Florida
|
Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 3:50 pm Post subject: Re: Newbie Help - Air mass handler and fuel injectors |
|
|
khughes wrote: |
So what was done to it to get it to where it is? How about a little history of what happened when? |
I was blowing white smoke out of my engine, found out my head gasket was blown. I had that replaced and a few new spark plugs.
I had a pretty large gas leak in one of my fuel injectors, so to save some cash, my mechanic recommended I replace them myself along with the what he called "air mass meter" but Ive been corrected that its a Air Flow Meter.
The van was running very strange before I started replacing the fuel injectors and air flow meter. It was bucking quite a bit and sometimes wouldnt get up to speed. The gas leak was really bad as well. I watching my gas meter just drain.
After replacement, I cannot get it to stay running without unplugging the air flow meter. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32574 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Igeo Samba Member
Joined: September 25, 2018 Posts: 888 Location: Oakland, CA
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
JSlate Samba Member
Joined: March 22, 2015 Posts: 15 Location: Florida
|
Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:52 pm Post subject: Re: Newbie Help - Air flow meter and fuel injectors |
|
|
OMG thatll take me all day haha |
|
Back to top |
|
|
JSlate Samba Member
Joined: March 22, 2015 Posts: 15 Location: Florida
|
Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 5:00 pm Post subject: Re: Newbie Help - Air flow meter and fuel injectors |
|
|
djkeev wrote: |
It is obviously a 2.1 engine.
What year is the Van?
EDIT: just saw 1990 on the video title.
How early is the 90? Look at the white sticker on the drivers door jamb for a build date.
What injectors did you install?
Did you keep the old ones? Hopefully the answer is yes.
Which head gaskets were replaced? Left or right?
Did it run ok before the head work but not now after the head work?
Or did it run poorly previously with the white smoke?
Replacing a AFM is a drastic step when checking the operation of one is so ridiculously easy.
You only replaced a "few" spark plugs? Not all four?
You only replaced one injector or all four?
Dave |
Looked in the door, no white sticker there other than just a bar code. Nothing under dash near door jamb that had a date on it. It is a 1990
I installed 4 injectors from: https://www.busdepot.com/025906031
Both head gaskets were replaced.
It ran alright before the white smoke and head gasket replacement. My mechanic was recommended by a large local VW vanagon FB group so I believe he did a good job, but didnt completely finish the job for me since I told him I maxed out my budget. He said those were the last 2 things to do. I drove the car home before replacing the 4 injectors. After replacing the injectors, I had the same with starting. After replacing the Air Flow Meter, I still had problems.
All 4 spark plugs replaced by mechanic.
The AFM was a rebuild from GoWesty: https://www.gowesty.com/product/air-intake/23992/rebuilt-air-flow-meter-?v= |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Russpauly Samba Member
Joined: January 13, 2019 Posts: 134 Location: San Diego
|
Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:25 pm Post subject: Re: Newbie Help - Air flow meter and fuel injectors |
|
|
JSlate wrote: |
OMG thatll take me all day haha |
Ehhh. Not that bad. I bought new ground trees sometime last year and it been on my todo list since owning my van for 2 years. Started having some issues and that was one of the first things I did. It took maybe 2 hours. Wasn’t that bad.
Ended up not fixing my problems, but now I know I don’t have a bad ground. _________________ 1988 Wolfsburg Edition - TinTop
2.1L Watercooled
The Space man Van |
|
Back to top |
|
|
mikemtnbike Samba Member
Joined: March 26, 2015 Posts: 2795 Location: North Carolina
|
Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:50 pm Post subject: Re: Newbie Help - Air flow meter and fuel injectors |
|
|
Spit balling. The really smells like gas "seems like it is spraying gas over here" part paired with just replaced injectors is a pretty big flashing light... obviously shouldn't be doing that. I'd be double checking there first. If, say you missed putting a seal between an injector and the head seems like that'd be a huge vacuum leak plus maybe blowing gas around. Again, just random internet gueses. _________________ 1991 Vanagon GL 2.1 AT Westfauxlia. "Frankie" Totaled https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=764510&highlight=carnage
1995 Eurovan Camper "Marzivan"
2020 GTI SE manual |
|
Back to top |
|
|
zoti Samba Member
Joined: December 26, 2007 Posts: 2060 Location: Plano, TX USA
|
Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:47 pm Post subject: Re: Newbie Help - Air flow meter and fuel injectors |
|
|
If you smell gas you might smell a BBQ soon.
First thing I would do is go over all the fuel lines and replace. Once that is done, verify there is no more gas leaking. Also replace the fuel injectors seals.
Then start the engine. If it shuts off like in the video, can you keep it running with your foot on the gas pedal? Will it stay running after a few minutes?
If you really want to fix the issue you will need to learn how to check timing, vacuum leaks and proper adjustment of the 2.1L WBX. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
dabaron Samba Member
Joined: June 21, 2018 Posts: 2559 Location: Philly, mang
|
Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 6:51 am Post subject: Re: Newbie Help - Air flow meter and fuel injectors |
|
|
when you are confirming the seals on the injectors are properly fitted into the manifold, pop the valve covers off and double check the valve lash since the heads were replaced.
i set mine to 1.5 turns after making contact. use your fingers to turn the screw to feel when it makes contact, then tighten one full turn and then a half a turn.
the procedure is here:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=177485 _________________ 1991 Vanagon GL Camper
i had no idea i wanted to be a mechanic
"burnin oil and cookin coils" -- Destructo
BiWerks Design, LLC |
|
Back to top |
|
|
JSlate Samba Member
Joined: March 22, 2015 Posts: 15 Location: Florida
|
Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:02 am Post subject: Re: Newbie Help - Air flow meter and fuel injectors |
|
|
mikemtnbike wrote: |
Spit balling. The really smells like gas "seems like it is spraying gas over here" part paired with just replaced injectors is a pretty big flashing light... obviously shouldn't be doing that. I'd be double checking there first. If, say you missed putting a seal between an injector and the head seems like that'd be a huge vacuum leak plus maybe blowing gas around. Again, just random internet gueses. |
I think you may be on to something....
I remember putting in those fuel injectors into the head and thinking, "That doesnt feel very tight, maybe the bolt will hold the pair of injectors in place (im not sure what the part is called)."
I did keep my old injectors, so I'll go ahead disassemble and post some photos later today to compare.
Edit: after looking up some photos, I definitely did not use small gaskets, and never saw any on my old injectors
Last edited by JSlate on Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:13 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top |
|
|
dabaron Samba Member
Joined: June 21, 2018 Posts: 2559 Location: Philly, mang
|
Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:05 am Post subject: Re: Newbie Help - Air flow meter and fuel injectors |
|
|
there are TWO rubber rings per injector - the larger one holds the injector in place, it's what the metal bracket pushes against. the small ring goes in the manifold hole and the tip of the injector goes in that. _________________ 1991 Vanagon GL Camper
i had no idea i wanted to be a mechanic
"burnin oil and cookin coils" -- Destructo
BiWerks Design, LLC |
|
Back to top |
|
|
JSlate Samba Member
Joined: March 22, 2015 Posts: 15 Location: Florida
|
Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:17 am Post subject: Re: Newbie Help - Air flow meter and fuel injectors |
|
|
dabaron wrote: |
there are TWO rubber rings per injector - the larger one holds the injector in place, it's what the metal bracket pushes against. the small ring goes in the manifold hole and the tip of the injector goes in that. |
Well I think I found the problem. The smaller gaskets are definitely on the old injectors... Wow.
I found this pic on my phone from when I first started.
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
brickster Samba Member
Joined: January 05, 2004 Posts: 512 Location: CO, USA
|
Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 12:10 pm Post subject: Re: Newbie Help - Air flow meter and fuel injectors |
|
|
JSlate wrote: |
Well I think I found the problem. The smaller gaskets are definitely on the old injectors... Wow.
I found this pic on my phone from when I first started.
|
I may be way off base here, but I don't think those new injectors will fit correctly. The bodies appear to have different dimensions lengthwise and the tip won't be far enough inside of the injection chamber.
Could you post another photo of both but with the largest circumference areas closest to the tip aligned? It might just be an optical illusion the way you have them positioned.
Also, the new hose should be the same length as the old. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
borninabus Samba R&D Dept.
Joined: May 18, 2006 Posts: 4536 Location: Arizona Highways
|
Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:26 pm Post subject: Re: Newbie Help - Air flow meter and fuel injectors |
|
|
you would be best served IMO, to send your original bosch injectors to one of the many well known reputable outfits that refurbishes injectors. run the injectors you have until you get your old ones back--they will work, just not as optimally as the originals. the small rubber parts are the actual seals. the big ones just serve to hold the injectors in once the bolt is tightened. make sure old seals are not stuck in the intake, they have a tendency to do that. _________________ 88 Van WBX, A/T - 13 JSW TDI 6M/T - 2012 Touareg TDI Sport |
|
Back to top |
|
|
djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32574 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
JSlate Samba Member
Joined: March 22, 2015 Posts: 15 Location: Florida
|
Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 8:47 am Post subject: Re: Newbie Help - Air flow meter and fuel injectors |
|
|
djkeev wrote: |
Yeah...... that's kinda where I was headed asking about how it ran previously and in particular asking if he still had the injectors.
The question about the injectors wasn't answered so I backed off.
Dave |
I do still have the injectors. Like some others mentioned, the "new" injectors may not be the best option for me. I will look into that after resolving now a bigger problem...
In the process of removing the right side fuel injectors, my bolt broke. How? Well I'm starting to realize that I am probably causing more harm than good here. I'm very disappointed I made such a big mistake here, and not really sure what to do about it at this point. I've been looking into methods for removing the broken and stripped bolt, but probably not a good idea for me personally to be doing anything at this point... I feel defeated
Old
New (looks too short)
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
|