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Vanuber Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2020 Posts: 411 Location: Virginia
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Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 5:40 pm Post subject: New faucet water pump melt down |
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So, I did an aux battery install over the past few months. As part of that, I rewired the sink pump into the new system. I replaced the water lines and the sink pump during the process (new from Go Westy).
We went on the first camping trip after the install this weekend, and as I was filling the water tank I noticed a putrid electrical burning smell. Pulled out my water pump and found it had suffered a good melt down - see photos below.
In trouble shooting I checked the following:
1) Voltage at pump connection - 13.8V with tank water turned on at faucet
2) Switch at faucet is functioning correctly
3) Voltage at fuse - 13.8V
4) 8A fuse is not blown
Possible scenarios:
1) Defective pump
2) Accidentally left pump on with an empty tank and burned it out
3) Pump cannot handle LiFePO4 14V output and need to find a higher voltage pump.
Any thoughts on what went wrong here? I have another pump on order. Unfortunately, my water tank smells strongly of burnt electronics so need to figure out how to get the smell out.
A side note... With lithium batteries we are pushing voltages up to 14V. Is this safe for typical 12v accessories? I am wondering if I need a voltage regulator going to the pump. But that would be a big pain in the arse.
_________________ '85 Westfalia 1.9L
'72 BMW R75/5
'71 BMW R75/5
'02 Subaru Forester 2.5L |
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jlrftype7 Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2018 Posts: 3577 Location: Chicago
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Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 5:48 pm Post subject: Re: New faucet water pump melt down |
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Is the pump circuit fused or not? I could see an unregulated short to ground inside the pump melting it with enough amps, but the pump is switched by demand only when in use, yes?... So, how is it run, power side switched or ground side switched to power the pump? _________________ '68 Westy- my first VW and vehicle/Bus- long gone.- sold it to a traveling Swiss couple....
'67 Type 3 Fastback, my 2nd car- gone
'69 Semi-Auto Stick Shift Beetle-gone
2017 MINI Coopers, our current DDs
‘84 Tin Top - Hilga....Auto |
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drj434343 Samba Member
Joined: January 31, 2016 Posts: 399 Location: Portland, OR
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Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:05 pm Post subject: Re: New faucet water pump melt down |
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Regarding the 14V question; while I don't have that specific pump, my shore power charger routinely floats to 14.7 V for my AGM batteries. It is on shore power for weeks at a time with lots of accessories running. Refrigerator, lights, water pump, stereo, USB chargers, fantastic fan, etc. I've never had any issues with things dying at those voltages. My recollection is that usually when a DC voltage range is stated for a device, it's pretty wide, like 10-16V. |
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jimf909 Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2014 Posts: 7466 Location: WA/ID
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Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 7:21 pm Post subject: Re: New faucet water pump melt down |
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My guess is that it was run while not submerged for an extended period of time. I may have heard once that these pumps need to be underwater to stay cool while running. The first Vanagon I bought in 1997 had a burnt out pump and the seller said the detailer bumped the faucet and left it running.
The Comet website says it can run dry for 30 minutes w/out damage. I wonder what a pump looks like after 30 minutes?
https://www.comet-pumpen.de/fileadmin/pdf/pumpen_d....12.00.pdf _________________ - Jim
Abscate wrote: |
Do not get killed, do not kill others.
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Current: 1990 Westy Camper - Bostig RG4, 2wd, manual trans w/Peloquin, NAHT high-top, 280 ah LFP battery, 160 watts solar, Flash Silver, seam rust, bondo, etc., etc.
Past: 1985 Westy Camper - 1.9 wbx, 2wd, manual trans, Merian Brown, (sold after 17 years to Northwesty who converted it to a Syncro). |
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djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32598 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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dgbeatty Samba Member
Joined: October 26, 2006 Posts: 702 Location: Sacramento
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Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 4:36 am Post subject: Re: New faucet water pump melt down |
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Interestingly the earliest Vanagon Westies with the external pump will not run the pump if the tank is empty. Later vans do not have that feature, both good and bad. This may offer a hint as to what happens when the pump is run dry for extended time periods.
My advice, if it matters, would be to install a GoWesty pneumatic foot switch hanging it out of the way when not in use. _________________ Schau in das Buch |
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Vanuber Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2020 Posts: 411 Location: Virginia
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Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 7:12 am Post subject: Re: New faucet water pump melt down |
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Thanks for the tips and advice. Sounds like the consensus is that I inadvertently left it running. I will get scrubbing on the tank with some baking soda. Bus Depot should have that pump to me this week and I will try again! _________________ '85 Westfalia 1.9L
'72 BMW R75/5
'71 BMW R75/5
'02 Subaru Forester 2.5L |
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MarkWard Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005 Posts: 17124 Location: Retired South Florida
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Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 7:30 am Post subject: Re: New faucet water pump melt down |
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I don't understand how the pump could seize and the fuse not blow. I'd investigate that a bit further when you install the replacement pump. Maybe a smaller rated fuse would be prudent. _________________ ☮️ |
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Vanuber Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2020 Posts: 411 Location: Virginia
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Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:35 am Post subject: Re: New faucet water pump melt down |
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MarkWard wrote: |
I don't understand how the pump could seize and the fuse not blow. I'd investigate that a bit further when you install the replacement pump. Maybe a smaller rated fuse would be prudent. |
I thought about that as well - seems odd. I am using an 8A fuse and the stock fuse was 7.5A. I believe the LED fridge/batt panel is also on that circuit. I will take some output measurements when I get the new pump and see what's going on. _________________ '85 Westfalia 1.9L
'72 BMW R75/5
'71 BMW R75/5
'02 Subaru Forester 2.5L |
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MarkWard Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005 Posts: 17124 Location: Retired South Florida
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Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 11:01 am Post subject: Re: New faucet water pump melt down |
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From memory as voltage goes up, amperage goes down or vice versa. Maybe the slightly higher voltage lowered the amperage enough to skate below the 8 amp fuse. Likely once the wires melted together the fuse would have blown. _________________ ☮️ |
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dgbeatty Samba Member
Joined: October 26, 2006 Posts: 702 Location: Sacramento
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Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 11:29 am Post subject: Re: New faucet water pump melt down |
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Just speculation but as the pump melted the brush holder and brush spring would have also begin to melt reducing the pressure on the brushes. The pump may have not seized but simply lost contact with the brushes thus the fuse would not have failed.
From memory the pump only uses ~1.5-2.0 amps max. I am heading into the shop now just to satisfy my curiosity. Back after lunch. _________________ Schau in das Buch |
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Igeo Samba Member
Joined: September 25, 2018 Posts: 888 Location: Oakland, CA
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Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 11:38 am Post subject: Re: New faucet water pump melt down |
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Reminds me of the melted connector to my radiator fan. That cicuit is protected by a 30 amp fuse, and the connector melted due to a bad bearing in the motor, but the fuse held up. Must have been close though.
_________________ 1987 Westfalia 2.1 WBX Manual |
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jimf909 Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2014 Posts: 7466 Location: WA/ID
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Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:19 pm Post subject: Re: New faucet water pump melt down |
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dgbeatty wrote: |
Just speculation but as the pump melted the brush holder and brush spring would have also begin to melt reducing the pressure on the brushes. The pump may have not seized but simply lost contact with the brushes thus the fuse would not have failed.
From memory the pump only uses ~1.5-2.0 amps max. I am heading into the shop now just to satisfy my curiosity. Back after lunch. |
Thereabouts. I measured 2.6 amps w/out any load from hoses or lift.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8851192#8851192
_________________ - Jim
Abscate wrote: |
Do not get killed, do not kill others.
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Current: 1990 Westy Camper - Bostig RG4, 2wd, manual trans w/Peloquin, NAHT high-top, 280 ah LFP battery, 160 watts solar, Flash Silver, seam rust, bondo, etc., etc.
Past: 1985 Westy Camper - 1.9 wbx, 2wd, manual trans, Merian Brown, (sold after 17 years to Northwesty who converted it to a Syncro). |
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Fiddlestyx Samba Member
Joined: July 08, 2015 Posts: 401 Location: Texas
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Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 3:48 am Post subject: Re: New faucet water pump melt down |
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dgbeatty wrote: |
Interestingly the earliest Vanagon Westies with the external pump will not run the pump if the tank is empty. Later vans do not have that feature, both good and bad. |
Why would one need to run the water pump if the tank is empty? _________________ 1983 Vanagon Westfalia Air-cooled
1973 Super Beetle |
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wbailey2112 Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2015 Posts: 483 Location: Grove City, OH
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Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:09 am Post subject: Re: New faucet water pump melt down |
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Fiddlestyx wrote: |
dgbeatty wrote: |
Interestingly the earliest Vanagon Westies with the external pump will not run the pump if the tank is empty. Later vans do not have that feature, both good and bad. |
Why would one need to run the water pump if the tank is empty? |
I think you're missing the point here. You do not want it to run when the tank is empty so that is why on some model years there is a built-in interlock that prevents the pump from running if there is no (or low) water in the tank. This prevents you from burning up your pump if you happen to pump all of the water out of the tank. _________________ '74 Thing
'83 Westfalia |
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MarkWard Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005 Posts: 17124 Location: Retired South Florida
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Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:22 am Post subject: Re: New faucet water pump melt down |
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It’s good to know the actual draw. It’s quite a bit less than 8 amps. Have you attempted to measure the draw of the melted pump? It may have just failed in such a way that the load didn’t go up enough to pop the fuse. _________________ ☮️ |
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