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Synchromesh Samba Member
Joined: April 14, 2014 Posts: 302 Location: San Francisco, CA
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Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:19 pm Post subject: Death foam replacement |
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Long story short, my '72 Super exhibited rust in the usual places. I bondoed the bejeezus out of it couple of times but it kept coming back. Instead of doing in the third time I realized I should just get it properly repaired at the body shop. They repaired it but had to remove the death foam on the right side. Since the car has a dual carbs, there is a nice Kadron sitting right below that area which now makes wonderful race car sounds right through that open area and into my ear.
So the question is - is there anything I can do about it? I don't think sealing the area off with sealer is the answer as it may get water to accumulate there if there is no escape. So what's the usual method and can I do it after they welded everything back up already? _________________ '72 Super Beetle sunroof sedan |
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Pez Samba Member
Joined: September 16, 2003 Posts: 583 Location: Texarkana
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Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:24 pm Post subject: Re: Death foam replacement |
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Pre-death foam they stuffed seat material in a triangular bag made out of head liner material scraps. Didn't sound deaden as well as the foam but worked and didn't cause rot. Just check any of the death foam threads for pictures. Also have the other side cleaned of foam while your at it, good preventive maintenance _________________ Always chasing Squirrel's. |
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Hatracks Samba Member
Joined: July 10, 2016 Posts: 663 Location: Renton, WA
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Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:28 pm Post subject: Re: Death foam replacement |
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i ended up stuffing zip lock bags with insulation material and stuffing them in there, not sure it really helped with noise i was more worried about fumes being sucked through there. _________________ 73 Super Build |
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Synchromesh Samba Member
Joined: April 14, 2014 Posts: 302 Location: San Francisco, CA
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Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:27 pm Post subject: Re: Death foam replacement |
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Can I still stuff things in there after it's all been zipped up by body work? I mean there is basically no access through the engine compartment so maybe the half-moon vent? _________________ '72 Super Beetle sunroof sedan |
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Tom K. Samba Member
Joined: March 10, 2005 Posts: 1605 Location: Central Pennsylvania
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Buggeee Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2016 Posts: 4419 Location: Stuck in Ohio
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Tom K. Samba Member
Joined: March 10, 2005 Posts: 1605 Location: Central Pennsylvania
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Airstream65 Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2019 Posts: 172 Location: Tulsa,Ok
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Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:26 am Post subject: Re: Death foam replacement |
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I have often wandered if it would be advisable to spray foam from engine bay on an earlier Beetle along with original pillows? |
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Synchromesh Samba Member
Joined: April 14, 2014 Posts: 302 Location: San Francisco, CA
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Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:07 am Post subject: Re: Death foam replacement |
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Tom K. wrote: |
Right, if all you need to do is stuff material in, then no need to cut interior holes. You can access from the engine compartment as Buggeee says or from the front by first removing the rear "door" cardboard panels. |
That's what I figured. So what should I put in there to muffle the sound? I figured sealer is not an option. _________________ '72 Super Beetle sunroof sedan |
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Tom K. Samba Member
Joined: March 10, 2005 Posts: 1605 Location: Central Pennsylvania
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Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:01 am Post subject: Re: Death foam replacement |
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Try this. First spray liberal amounts of Fluid Film or similar into the channel. Then take an ordinary plastic bag and stuff it in deep with the bag opening facing back. Then take a can of expandable foam in a can and spray it into your plastic bag.
The Fluid film protects the metal. The bag allows you to get the new foam out in the future should you need to.
Just one idea. _________________ '91 Vanagon Westfalia
'70 Beetle Convertible
'71 Super Beetle Semi-Automatic: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=714131&highlight=
'65 Ghia: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=762478&highlight= |
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Murmsk Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2019 Posts: 368 Location: Illinois
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Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:51 am Post subject: Re: Death foam replacement |
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So I have a 72 that shows no sign of rust. Would it be wise to dig that stuff out ?
Steve _________________ 1970 Convertible
1972 super
1946 Willys Jeep |
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Tom K. Samba Member
Joined: March 10, 2005 Posts: 1605 Location: Central Pennsylvania
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Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 6:13 pm Post subject: Re: Death foam replacement |
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Murmsk wrote: |
So I have a 72 that shows no sign of rust. Would it be wise to dig that stuff out ? Steve |
I had no sign of rust on my 71 and found no rust after digging in there. That seal fails on some cars but not on others. If that seal is in place, then moisture doesn't get in. For piece of mind, you can instead remove the moon vent covers and feel down with your hands. You will find the channel where the two metals meet. Smear a thick layer of seam sealer along that channel. It will provide a second layer of protection against water penetration.
People on this site call it "death foam". But the foam itself is great. It does *not* absorb water (I've submerged some in a jar, and it remained dry days later) and molds perfectly in the cabinet. But that seal is the problem. Water gets it. Even an early model pillow made of headliner would trap that water and cause rust. Its a "death seal". _________________ '91 Vanagon Westfalia
'70 Beetle Convertible
'71 Super Beetle Semi-Automatic: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=714131&highlight=
'65 Ghia: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=762478&highlight= |
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Synchromesh Samba Member
Joined: April 14, 2014 Posts: 302 Location: San Francisco, CA
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Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:42 pm Post subject: Re: Death foam replacement |
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Tom K. wrote: |
People on this site call it "death foam". But the foam itself is great. It does *not* absorb water (I've submerged some in a jar, and it remained dry days later) and molds perfectly in the cabinet. But that seal is the problem. Water gets it. Even an early model pillow made of headliner would trap that water and cause rust. Its a "death seal". |
If the foam doesn't absorb water then why does the body rust all around it? _________________ '72 Super Beetle sunroof sedan |
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Tom K. Samba Member
Joined: March 10, 2005 Posts: 1605 Location: Central Pennsylvania
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Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:52 am Post subject: Re: Death foam replacement |
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Synchromesh wrote: |
Tom K. wrote: |
Pedople on this site call it "death foam". But the foam itself is great. It does *not* absorb water (I've submerged some in a jar, and it remained dry days later) and molds perfectly in the cabinet. But that seal is the problem. Water gets it. Even an early model pillow made of headliner would trap that water and cause rust. Its a "death seal". |
If the foam doesn't absorb water then why does the body rust all around it? |
It traps the water. Metal doesn't absorb water. But add water to an area between two sheets of metal, and you will get rust. _________________ '91 Vanagon Westfalia
'70 Beetle Convertible
'71 Super Beetle Semi-Automatic: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=714131&highlight=
'65 Ghia: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=762478&highlight= |
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74 standard Samba Member
Joined: January 23, 2014 Posts: 410 Location: Canada
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Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:22 am Post subject: Re: Death foam replacement |
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I cut holes on the inside to access it like the previous poster did. Then to make sure I removed as much as possible I put a metal coat hanger in the chuck of my drill and went at it from the engine compartment. I then welded the panels I cut out back in and this caused the remaining foam to catch fire pretty much effectively removing the balance.That stuff is highly flammable. DONT DO THIS WITH THE WIRING HARNESS IN as it will be toasted by the fire as will the paint. |
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Synchromesh Samba Member
Joined: April 14, 2014 Posts: 302 Location: San Francisco, CA
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Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 4:00 pm Post subject: Re: Death foam replacement |
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Is there a way to stuff this place without opening it up? I think the holes in the engine compartment are quite tiny so they won't be easy to work with, however, I'd rather try that way than butcher the interior metal. _________________ '72 Super Beetle sunroof sedan |
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vamram Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2012 Posts: 7304 Location: NOVA
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Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 4:47 pm Post subject: Re: Death foam replacement |
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You can do it from the engine compartment but it's not easy and you'll be doing much of it blind. I've done it like this on two Supers. Come at it from the rear card areas as well using some of the makeshift tools described above. _________________ Eventually, "we are what we pretend to be.
Give peace a chance - Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!
'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!! |
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Synchromesh Samba Member
Joined: April 14, 2014 Posts: 302 Location: San Francisco, CA
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Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:28 pm Post subject: Re: Death foam replacement |
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vamram wrote: |
You can do it from the engine compartment but it's not easy and you'll be doing much of it blind. I've done it like this on two Supers. Come at it from the rear card areas as well using some of the makeshift tools described above. |
What did you use for insulation? I don't mind some access difficulty to avoid cutting things as long as it's reasonable. _________________ '72 Super Beetle sunroof sedan |
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vamram Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2012 Posts: 7304 Location: NOVA
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Synchromesh Samba Member
Joined: April 14, 2014 Posts: 302 Location: San Francisco, CA
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Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 10:16 am Post subject: Re: Death foam replacement |
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Thank you. Since I won't have full access I think the bags are out but I maybe able to spray enough foam in there from the car from second link. Rubber coating is also unlikely but I'll look into it.
Biggest question though - in both cases, did it take care of the sound like the original foam does? _________________ '72 Super Beetle sunroof sedan |
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