Author |
Message |
jhicken Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2003 Posts: 9466 Location: Fallbrook, CA
|
Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 1:43 pm Post subject: 1979 Federal Bus Exhaust |
|
|
OK guys, I know I've asked a few questions about this before but now I'm motivated to get this straightened out. I have a '79 Federal bus from New Jersey. I'm now in north San Diego. When I restored the bus I picked up the heater boxes and muffler designed for a '74 [perfect for NJ and the old header was rotted]. As you know, California is different. Can I source a '79 Federal exhaust and get it to pass? Or do I need to find an original CA version. My next question. I have no idea what I'm looking for so does anyone have any pics or diagram of what I need to find? My current set-up was easy, Just like a type 1, basically a couple of heater boxes and the muffler. From what I can tell, this has these random pipes and cross overs and a lot of crap I'm not really sure about. I've see pics where the cat is mounted just before the muffler, and I've seen a few pics where it's underneath by the heater box. Also, if I'm able to find a CA version, is that going to be an issue on a federal car? I found a guy in the bay area that has some of the parts but not all. Like I said before, I'm not sure what I'm looking for so any help would be appreciated. _________________ Der Kleiner Kampfwagens |
|
Back to top |
|
|
airschooled Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012 Posts: 12686 Location: on a bike ride somewhere
|
Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:10 pm Post subject: Re: 1979 Federal Bus Exhaust |
|
|
Driver door jam dotted sticker is #1. If no dotted sticker, yellow compartment sticker.
If "non-catalyst," then you can use any damn exhaust you like, as long as the sniffer is pleased, and the functional tests and inspections all pass.
If "Catalyst"," you'll have to have a cat with a CA-legal EO number. There is no written law, statute, or regulation that I know of that documents our exhaust setups. Have the correct cat number, all functional parts accounted for, and please the computer.
Honestly, it's really hard to pass the NoX without a functional EGR system, but it is possible. That's going to be your big search/budget item on a federal bus. (On a CA/Cat bus, you can richen the mix to lower NoX and allow the cat to scrub the rest of the gasses.) Your '74 muffler should have an EGR takeoff.
Here is the Motor brand manual that most shops in SD county use:
There are a couple errors, notably in the '79 CA line, but the federal line looks correct.
Good luck,
Robbie _________________ Learn how your vintage VW works. And why it doesn't!
One-on-one tech help for your Volkswagen:
www.airschooled.com |
|
Back to top |
|
|
jhicken Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2003 Posts: 9466 Location: Fallbrook, CA
|
Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:08 pm Post subject: Re: 1979 Federal Bus Exhaust |
|
|
I should have mentioned that, it does say "Catalyst"
Airschooled, I sent you an email regarding my situation yesterday. I was considering coming to you to help me get this all in order [I'm in Fallbrook]. I called Jim at Interstate and he's checking to see what he has. The guy up north has the parts below, what else do I need? Is this a CA '79 system or a Federal '79 system?
Thanks for you help. _________________ Der Kleiner Kampfwagens |
|
Back to top |
|
|
airschooled Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012 Posts: 12686 Location: on a bike ride somewhere
|
Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:16 pm Post subject: Re: 1979 Federal Bus Exhaust |
|
|
Ha! I have a few dozen more emails to get to before the weekend....
If the sticker says catalyst, it was a CA-spec bus, that’s it. Lots of them were delivered outside of CA.
Where are the right side header pipes?
There are legal issues around buying/selling/installing a used catalytic converter, but it’s an unenforceable law. I would prefer a new cat anyway though, they make passing fairly straightforward. All buses, CA/Fed, auto/manual, are all tested on the same tailpipe average.
Robbie _________________ Learn how your vintage VW works. And why it doesn't!
One-on-one tech help for your Volkswagen:
www.airschooled.com |
|
Back to top |
|
|
jhicken Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2003 Posts: 9466 Location: Fallbrook, CA
|
Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:39 pm Post subject: Re: 1979 Federal Bus Exhaust |
|
|
He says he's missing the passenger side heater box/j pipe/catalytic. Isn't that a cat pictured? He wants $250 for what is showing above. Is that worth it? I see I can get a new muffler and a cat, can I reuse the heater boxes I have?
What else is it missing? Do you have any sources for what I need? My plan is to get everything I need, clean it up and have it ceramic coated. I want this the best that it can be. It's on my wife's bus so I don't want to cut any corners. _________________ Der Kleiner Kampfwagens |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50255
|
Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 4:28 pm Post subject: Re: 1979 Federal Bus Exhaust |
|
|
If you have actual 72-74 heat exchangers then swapping to '79 heat exchangers is not straight forward. You may either need to do some custom work to the exhaust ports in the heads or install the correct '79 heads.
You need to know what was done to make the 72-74 exhaust work on a '79 engine in the first place and undo it somehow. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
jhicken Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2003 Posts: 9466 Location: Fallbrook, CA
|
Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 5:44 pm Post subject: Re: 1979 Federal Bus Exhaust |
|
|
These are the new ones sold by Dansk, They are square port manifolds. _________________ Der Kleiner Kampfwagens |
|
Back to top |
|
|
JaimeH Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2012 Posts: 265 Location: Canterbury, NH
|
Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 6:01 am Post subject: Re: 1979 Federal Bus Exhaust |
|
|
'79 Federal would have had a CAT. The system was different than CA though.
It would have looked like this. The crossover pipe will work with 72-74 heat exchangers as well as the '79 only square port.
_________________ 1978 Transporter 2.0 FI, BA6
Special Thanks to Razor's Customs, Boscawen, NH |
|
Back to top |
|
|
airschooled Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012 Posts: 12686 Location: on a bike ride somewhere
|
Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 7:23 am Post subject: Re: 1979 Federal Bus Exhaust |
|
|
Our answers depend on your cylinder head ports. What do you have?
The smog shop does not care what pipe setup you have, as long as the cat is present and CA legal. (Half the shops out there don’t even check the number, though they’re supposed to.)
Note that the 72-74 flanges and 79 federal flanges are the same but they have a different placement on the car. 79 federal exchanger flanges are about 1/2” forward from the early flanges. Running a 72-74 exhaust on late flanges requires a spacer for each flange, or removal of the bus oil fill tube in lieu of a 914 tube.
Robbie _________________ Learn how your vintage VW works. And why it doesn't!
One-on-one tech help for your Volkswagen:
www.airschooled.com |
|
Back to top |
|
|
JaimeH Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2012 Posts: 265 Location: Canterbury, NH
|
Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 1:13 pm Post subject: Re: 1979 Federal Bus Exhaust |
|
|
airschooled wrote: |
Note that the 72-74 flanges and 79 federal flanges are the same but they have a different placement on the car. 79 federal exchanger flanges are about 1/2” forward from the early flanges. Running a 72-74 exhaust on late flanges requires a spacer for each flange, or removal of the bus oil fill tube in lieu of a 914 tube.
Robbie |
Robbie, Does this mean when I install the '79 set-up pictured above on my 72-74 exhangers everything will be 1/2" rearward of it's intended location? _________________ 1978 Transporter 2.0 FI, BA6
Special Thanks to Razor's Customs, Boscawen, NH |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50255
|
Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 1:45 pm Post subject: Re: 1979 Federal Bus Exhaust |
|
|
JimmieH wrote: |
airschooled wrote: |
Note that the 72-74 flanges and 79 federal flanges are the same but they have a different placement on the car. 79 federal exchanger flanges are about 1/2” forward from the early flanges. Running a 72-74 exhaust on late flanges requires a spacer for each flange, or removal of the bus oil fill tube in lieu of a 914 tube.
Robbie |
Robbie, Does this mean when I install the '79 set-up pictured above on my 72-74 exhangers everything will be 1/2" rearward of it's intended location? |
The bolt patterns may be the same but the flanges aren't compatible without modification being made that are more than most are going to be up to doing. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
airschooled Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012 Posts: 12686 Location: on a bike ride somewhere
|
Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 2:19 pm Post subject: Re: 1979 Federal Bus Exhaust |
|
|
JimmieH wrote: |
airschooled wrote: |
Note that the 72-74 flanges and 79 federal flanges are the same but they have a different placement on the car. 79 federal exchanger flanges are about 1/2” forward from the early flanges. Running a 72-74 exhaust on late flanges requires a spacer for each flange, or removal of the bus oil fill tube in lieu of a 914 tube.
Robbie |
Robbie, Does this mean when I install the '79 set-up pictured above on my 72-74 exhangers everything will be 1/2" rearward of it's intended location? |
I believe so, but I’m not 100%. Last year I installed a 72-74 muffler on a square port engine with ‘79 federal heat exchangers, and it was 1/2” too close to the engine. German Supply sells a spacer kit for my situation, but I don’t know the ramifications of your reversed situation.
Do you actually have 79 federal heat exchangers, or 72-74 exchangers? _________________ Learn how your vintage VW works. And why it doesn't!
One-on-one tech help for your Volkswagen:
www.airschooled.com |
|
Back to top |
|
|
JaimeH Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2012 Posts: 265 Location: Canterbury, NH
|
Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 3:01 pm Post subject: Re: 1979 Federal Bus Exhaust |
|
|
[quote="airschooled"]
JimmieH wrote: |
airschooled wrote: |
Note that the 72-74 flanges and 79 federal flanges are the same but they have a different placement on the car. 79 federal exchanger flanges are about 1/2” forward from the early flanges. Running a 72-74 exhaust on late flanges requires a spacer for each flange, or removal of the bus oil fill tube in lieu of a 914 tube.
Robbie |
Robbie, Does this mean when I install the '79 set-up pictured above everything will be 1/2” rearward of it’s intended location?
Do you actually have 79 federal heat exchangers, or 72-74 exchangers? |
I’m not the OP. Yes I have 72-74 exchangers on ‘78 with oval ports.
I intend to install the ‘79 crossover & CAT. _________________ 1978 Transporter 2.0 FI, BA6
Special Thanks to Razor's Customs, Boscawen, NH |
|
Back to top |
|
|
jhicken Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2003 Posts: 9466 Location: Fallbrook, CA
|
Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 3:09 pm Post subject: Re: 1979 Federal Bus Exhaust |
|
|
So, I'm still learning here. I believe the image above is the '79 CA set-up. I believe it's missing the exhaust manifold and cat. Am I correct? What else is it missing? The EGR filter? Where does it go? _________________ Der Kleiner Kampfwagens |
|
Back to top |
|
|
JaimeH Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2012 Posts: 265 Location: Canterbury, NH
|
Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 3:24 pm Post subject: Re: 1979 Federal Bus Exhaust |
|
|
‘79 CA didn’t have EGR. Do you have an EGR valve or the remnants of one? You started with ‘79 Federal correct? _________________ 1978 Transporter 2.0 FI, BA6
Special Thanks to Razor's Customs, Boscawen, NH |
|
Back to top |
|
|
jhicken Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2003 Posts: 9466 Location: Fallbrook, CA
|
Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 3:26 pm Post subject: Re: 1979 Federal Bus Exhaust |
|
|
FWIW, this is the set-up I'm currently running. The heater boxes fit '79 square port heads and the muffler is '72-'74. It's all available new, so that was the way I went. _________________ Der Kleiner Kampfwagens
Last edited by jhicken on Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:01 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top |
|
|
jhicken Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2003 Posts: 9466 Location: Fallbrook, CA
|
Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 3:28 pm Post subject: Re: 1979 Federal Bus Exhaust |
|
|
JimmieH wrote: |
‘79 CA didn’t have EGR. Do you have an EGR valve or the remnants of one? You started with ‘79 Federal correct? |
It is originally a New Jersey bus but the sticker says Catalyst. It didn't have anything original. It had a rusty new jersey home made header on it. _________________ Der Kleiner Kampfwagens
Last edited by jhicken on Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:30 pm; edited 2 times in total |
|
Back to top |
|
|
jhicken Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2003 Posts: 9466 Location: Fallbrook, CA
|
Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 3:31 pm Post subject: Re: 1979 Federal Bus Exhaust |
|
|
I'm just trying to figure out what I need. CA or Federal. I have the opportunity to get the stuff above [in the weeds] which I believe is the '79 CA version, and I have a local wrecking yard looking to see what they have. The pic I posted above was an image I pulled off another Samba thread. I drew in the other missing pieces. I'm want to know what else I may need. _________________ Der Kleiner Kampfwagens |
|
Back to top |
|
|
JaimeH Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2012 Posts: 265 Location: Canterbury, NH
|
Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 3:49 pm Post subject: Re: 1979 Federal Bus Exhaust |
|
|
Post a picture of your yellow emission sticker. If you have a ‘79 Federal it will likely say CAT & EGR. If so the ‘79 CA set up your looking at will not have provisions for the EGR. _________________ 1978 Transporter 2.0 FI, BA6
Special Thanks to Razor's Customs, Boscawen, NH |
|
Back to top |
|
|
airschooled Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012 Posts: 12686 Location: on a bike ride somewhere
|
Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 12:00 pm Post subject: Re: 1979 Federal Bus Exhaust |
|
|
The stickers say what you should have, regardless of what we call it. The pipe arrangement does not matter, as long as the cat EO number is legal, or if the cat is original to the car. I would advise against using the '79 CA pipe setup, because you can buy more new parts for the other setups, so you won't be SOL when something on the special 79 CA setup rusts out.
Robbie _________________ Learn how your vintage VW works. And why it doesn't!
One-on-one tech help for your Volkswagen:
www.airschooled.com |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|