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kreemoweet Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2008 Posts: 3889 Location: Seattle, WA
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Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:01 am Post subject: Re: Unknown grinding/rubbing noise at speed |
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surfbus23 wrote: |
Jacked the front up and took off the tire this morning. Found the break caliper looking like this.
This looks to be problematic with it rubbing against the rotor. It looks the same on the backside. Or not. I don't remember what it's supposed to be like. Looks like maybe this is correct. |
Woah! That not right. Pad wear surface on disk should go almost out to the outer edge, within 1/8" or so. Wrong pads?
Pad retaining pins came out? _________________ '67 bug: seized by the authorities
'68 bug: seized by the authorities
'71 kombi: not yet seized by the authorities
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
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surfbus23 Samba Member
Joined: July 21, 2016 Posts: 383
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Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 10:15 am Post subject: Re: Unknown grinding/rubbing noise at speed |
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Bad news for me. It wasn't the speedometer cable. Anyone able to listen to that audio and give me guidance? |
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22566 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:00 pm Post subject: Re: Unknown grinding/rubbing noise at speed |
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I thought I posted to this thread. The noise in turning points to a bad front wheel bearing. The noise of a bad bearing gets loudest when you turn away from it , forcing the bearing into the outer race, not definitive but 95% indicative _________________ .ssS! |
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surfbus23 Samba Member
Joined: July 21, 2016 Posts: 383
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Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 4:31 pm Post subject: Re: Unknown grinding/rubbing noise at speed |
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Thanks so much to everyone who put in time to help me. I figured it out this afternoon. The key was thinking of the noise as a screeching sound rather than a metal contact.
Turns out my tie rod had come loose and my alignment was messed up. The screeching noise was me dragging my tire on the pavement during turns. The particular stretch of road I was hearing it on was a slightly swerving section through town, so it really accentuated it there in particular. Got the rod tightened up and what passes for an alignment here in Panama and she's so much tighter now. |
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airschooled Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012 Posts: 12686 Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 7:18 pm Post subject: Re: Unknown grinding/rubbing noise at speed |
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Ok but hang on, something still seriously looks wrong with your brake pad. At best, the wrong pads are installed, at worst they could be falling out. _________________ Learn how your vintage VW works. And why it doesn't!
One-on-one tech help for your Volkswagen:
www.airschooled.com |
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Globespotter Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2012 Posts: 1765 Location: Newmarket, ON
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surfbus23 Samba Member
Joined: July 21, 2016 Posts: 383
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Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 7:26 am Post subject: Re: Unknown grinding/rubbing noise at speed |
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airschooled wrote: |
Ok but hang on, something still seriously looks wrong with your brake pad. At best, the wrong pads are installed, at worst they could be falling out. |
Circling back around to this thread to try and address the misaligned calipers/brake pads. First, here is a picture of the pins. Looks fine to me but want to get another set of eyes.
As for the caliper part number if I google the cast number (64321989) it doesn't have a lot of hits, but two of them indicate that this is the correct RH caliper for a '79 bus. "Caliper Girling 2x54w56 RH".
As for the pads, I purchased them from German Supply. Checking my receipt it lists them as:
"251 698 151A PAG Brake Pads Bus '73-'79 / Vanagon '80-'85 - Pagid Brand"
So this doesn't obviously suggest a misfit. Can't find the receipt for the rotors, so can't confirm those are correct.
Can anyone suggest a next step to figuring out what could be wrong here?
Thanks,
Kevin |
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ToolBox Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2004 Posts: 3439 Location: Detroit, where they don't jack parts off my ride in the parking lot of the 7-11
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Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:28 am Post subject: Re: Unknown grinding/rubbing noise at speed |
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surfbus23 wrote: |
airschooled wrote: |
Ok but hang on, something still seriously looks wrong with your brake pad. At best, the wrong pads are installed, at worst they could be falling out. |
Circling back around to this thread to try and address the misaligned calipers/brake pads. First, here is a picture of the pins. Looks fine to me but want to get another set of eyes.
As for the caliper part number if I google the cast number (64321989) it doesn't have a lot of hits, but two of them indicate that this is the correct RH caliper for a '79 bus. "Caliper Girling 2x54w56 RH".
As for the pads, I purchased them from German Supply. Checking my receipt it lists them as:
"251 698 151A PAG Brake Pads Bus '73-'79 / Vanagon '80-'85 - Pagid Brand"
So this doesn't obviously suggest a misfit. Can't find the receipt for the rotors, so can't confirm those are correct.
Can anyone suggest a next step to figuring out what could be wrong here?
Thanks,
Kevin |
Pull the OB pad. I want to see the friction face. |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:51 am Post subject: Re: Unknown grinding/rubbing noise at speed |
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what they are saying is that the inner edge of the pad appears too close to the hub. It should be over the shiny area only. Something is goofy with the installation. It is hard to say because the piston appears too far towards the hub too. Are these the original calipers and rotor that came with your bus
_________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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ToolBox Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2004 Posts: 3439 Location: Detroit, where they don't jack parts off my ride in the parking lot of the 7-11
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Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 12:02 pm Post subject: Re: Unknown grinding/rubbing noise at speed |
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SGKent wrote: |
what they are saying is that the inner edge of the pad appears too close to the hub. It should be over the shiny area only. Something is goofy with the installation. It is hard to say because the piston appears too far towards the hub too. Are these the original calipers and rotor that came with your bus
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Mismatched OB caliper half? The pins would fit funky but sort of look correct. |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 12:10 pm Post subject: Re: Unknown grinding/rubbing noise at speed |
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from the photo it just looks like a brake job that is bound to cause all sorts of problems, or worse, kill someone. The original post involving the brakes started in April 2021. This is December. To Surfbus - might want to get someone helping you that knows brakes. The rotor appears really worn too, meaning maybe way too thin. _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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KTPhil Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006 Posts: 33875 Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 12:18 pm Post subject: Re: Unknown grinding/rubbing noise at speed |
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Some use ATF for cables. |
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kreemoweet Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2008 Posts: 3889 Location: Seattle, WA
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Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 1:11 pm Post subject: Re: Unknown grinding/rubbing noise at speed |
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A pretty good whack (accidental or on purpose) on the pad's rear side could have forced it towards the disk hub like that, probably bent the retaining pin too. From the looks of that rust, it happened quite some time ago. _________________ '67 bug: seized by the authorities
'68 bug: seized by the authorities
'71 kombi: not yet seized by the authorities
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telford dorr Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2009 Posts: 3547 Location: San Diego (Encinitas)
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Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:07 pm Post subject: Re: Unknown grinding/rubbing noise at speed |
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The pad should not touch the rough part of the rotor.
Pull the pins and the pads. Make sure the pins went through the slots in the pad backing plate. Looks as if someone pushed the pad in too far. If not that, disassemble the whole thing and compare to the other side - they're mirror images of each other. _________________ '71 panel, now with FI
'Experience' is the ability to recognize a mistake when you're making it again - Franklin P. Jones
In theory, theory works in practice; in practice, it doesn't - William T. Harbaugh
When you're dead, you don't know you're dead. The pain is only felt by others.
Same thing happens when you're stupid. - Philippe Geluck
More VW electrical at http://telforddorr.com/ (available 9am to 9pm PST) |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:33 pm Post subject: Re: Unknown grinding/rubbing noise at speed |
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the piston is om the edge of the pad. I am thinking the wrong pads were used last time and the rotor is worn thin except in the rusty area. This is such a crappy brake situation i think the OP needs assistance with this.
Below is an image of my 1977 brakes when done with a new rotor. The disk has a trough next to the hub section. The photo of the OP's is raised making me think it has been worn thin.
Here is another image from the gallery. You can see the trough at the inner edge.
same here
here is a 1978
_________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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surfbus23 Samba Member
Joined: July 21, 2016 Posts: 383
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Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:32 am Post subject: Re: Unknown grinding/rubbing noise at speed |
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Hmm... really not sure what make of this. The brake calipers are the ones that came with the bus when I purchased it. I rebuilt them very carefully using the Bentley and here as a guide. Everything as a unit has 15k miles on it.
I've been driving the Pan American highway and currently in Colombia, so a bit more difficult than normal to accomplish things. I took them to a brake place and they checked the pads and felt things looked normal. This is a Colombia brake place, however, so I won't claim they have the same standards.
I didn't grab a picture of the pads, but I did look at them and I didn't notice any raised edges. I didn't closely examine them, but I know when I put them in the pins were straight and I was watching the whole processes and they looked straight to me.
I understand that the pads should be more centered on the rotor. SGKent, can you help me understand better what the risks of continuing to operate like this are?
Thanks a ton everyone. Appreciate the input and help. |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:50 pm Post subject: Re: Unknown grinding/rubbing noise at speed |
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the pads need to sit on the completely flat and shiny portion of the rotor to work properly. From your photo it looks like they are sitting on a rusty ledge created where the last pads did not contact. Take a look in person since photos lie sometimes.
In the photo below, you can see that the contact area from the prior pads goes much farther in than yours. Yours is not normal. It could be the pads are wrong, in wrong, or the last pads were not correct so they did not wear right. Were it me, I'd check the thickness of the rotor to be sure it is within specifications and replace them if they are not. If they are then a brake shop can turn them on a brake lathe to restore a proper surface.
Link
_________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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