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8bit Innovations Samba Member
Joined: August 14, 2019 Posts: 160
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Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 9:30 am Post subject: Red light while revving low (sorry, no creative title this time) |
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My 67 bug has been having this problem for about two weeks and it’s driving me nuts! When the engine is idling, half of the time the generator light comes on. However, I start driving and the light goes away quickly. Just a light is not frustrating though, what is frustrating is that every time the light comes on, I hear an ever so slight rattle underneath the rear seat, which goes away when the light goes off. A mechanic concluded that the generator is not working properly, since the red light issue seems to get worse when the headlights are on (happened to me before it got worse). However, I’m not sure of the generator is completely at fault, because since seeing my 67 bug the mechanic wanted to make sure we keep it factory correct and remarked that the generator we have is not the correct one, although I still wanted the car to have the correct push terminal generator. Anyway, the main question: Is my generator really at fault or there may be something else at fault?
P.S: I replaced my normal size battery with a smaller sized new battery, which seems to kinda have helped in the problem, but not by much. _________________ -8Bit
67 Bug Puerto Rico spec Deluxe sedan Fontana Grey (Acquired from original owner’s family) |
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rcroane Samba Member
Joined: January 03, 2013 Posts: 2000 Location: Springfield, Virginia
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Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 10:06 am Post subject: Re: Red light while revving low (sorry, no creative title this time) |
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Battery cables all nice and tight? Just wondering if the light and the rattle under the seat are related to the new battery installation. _________________ '65 Sunroof Bug |
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Zundfolge1432 Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2004 Posts: 12467
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Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 10:07 am Post subject: Re: Red light while revving low (sorry, no creative title this time) |
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Not a problem now. When light comes on and stays on you’ll have a problem. |
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iowegian Samba Curmudgeon
Joined: February 16, 2005 Posts: 9829 Location: Somewhere between Dubuque and Keokuk
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Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 11:20 am Post subject: Re: Red light while revving low (sorry, no creative title this time) |
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If I am not mistaken the '67 Beetle voltage regulator is located under the rear seat, so-------------- |
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8bit Innovations Samba Member
Joined: August 14, 2019 Posts: 160
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Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 11:34 am Post subject: Re: Red light while revving low (sorry, no creative title this time) |
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Addressing the recent replies:
1. The battery cables were tightened even better than what they were before. The rattle comes just from the left side of the rear seat. Thanks for the suggestion though!
2. Thanks for the reply too! At least now I know the car is drivable!
3. The regulator. That’s what the mechanic and I initially suspected. However, the other problems he mentioned include, lights dimming while idling, and needing to rev the engine a bit when arriving from a drive with the lights on. All of those problems had been occurring for some time before the light came on even when driving with the lights off. Is the regulator rattle associated with the generator failing though, or is that an excuse made by the mechanic to replace the generator?? _________________ -8Bit
67 Bug Puerto Rico spec Deluxe sedan Fontana Grey (Acquired from original owner’s family) |
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mukluk Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2012 Posts: 7023 Location: Clyde, TX
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Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 12:36 pm Post subject: Re: Red light while revving low (sorry, no creative title this time) |
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8bit Innovations wrote: |
... The rattle comes just from the left side of the rear seat. |
That's where the voltage regulator is located. If you still have an original mechanical style regulator, then the rattle you're hearing is the cut in coil/contacts quickly opening and closing. Given your problem description, I would suggest cleaning and tightening up all the wire connections at the voltage regulator, and if that doesn't clear up the issue, then grab a voltmeter and start checking your generator output, battery voltage state, and look for voltage drops in the charging system. Sometimes the problem you have can also be due to the idle speed set too low, so that's one more item you may want to visit. _________________ 1960 Ragtop w/Semaphores "Inga" |
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67rustavenger Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2015 Posts: 9756 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 12:37 pm Post subject: Re: Red light while revving low (sorry, no creative title this time) |
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The rattle under the back seat. Is likely the VR points clicking closed and open at a very high rate.
You can change the VR to a solid state unit from Bosch. Or live with the OG one that you currently are running. I have a SS VR in my 67 and it works flawlessly.
The dash gen light glowing at stop lights is just the nature of the electrical system. The lights dimming when idling is a result of the gen. not charging at idle. Once the engine is revved. The gen. light goes out and the gen is charging the battery.
An alt. charges continuously. From idle to full driving RPM. But an alt. is not stock on a 67.
If this is the Savannah Beige car in your gallery. I'm super jealous. It's a beautiful car indeed.
If you are living in PR. I'm jealous too. I miss the island. I worked there in 2001 for a year and really enjoyed the life style, culture, and the roadside Kiosks that offered some of the most delicious foods any person can ever eat. _________________ I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!
There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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viiking Samba Member
Joined: May 10, 2013 Posts: 2667 Location: Sydney Australia
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Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 3:37 pm Post subject: Re: Red light while revving low (sorry, no creative title this time) |
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Definitely the VR under the back seat, chattering as the points open and close.
Note: Generators do little to NO charging below 1000rpm engine speed. The rated output of the 12V generator is about 360W @ 12V at 2000 generator RPM which is twice the engine speed. So if your engine is idling typically below 1000 rpm not much juice is being provided. _________________ 1968 1500 RHD Lotus White Beetle since birth. In the hospital for major surgery
1966 Lancia Flavia Pininfarina Coupe - in the waiting room
Discharged: 1983 Vanagon, 1974 1800 Microbus,1968 Low Light,1968 Type 3 |
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Eric&Barb Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004 Posts: 24733 Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 7:26 pm Post subject: Re: Red light while revving low (sorry, no creative title this time) |
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It could also be you have an earlier crankshaft pulley that is too small. _________________ In Stereo, Where Available! |
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8bit Innovations Samba Member
Joined: August 14, 2019 Posts: 160
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Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 10:21 pm Post subject: Re: Red light while revving low (sorry, no creative title this time) |
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Thanks for the quick responses to everyone! I’ll give you an update when I work on the car. _________________ -8Bit
67 Bug Puerto Rico spec Deluxe sedan Fontana Grey (Acquired from original owner’s family) |
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lboos Samba Member
Joined: November 20, 2015 Posts: 410 Location: Marietta GA.
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Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 5:05 am Post subject: Re: Red light while revving low (sorry, no creative title this time) |
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Sounds like your idle rpm is just too low, that would cause the light to flicker at idle, also can cause noise because of a rough idle. increase your idle rpm.
I don't think you could hear the VR making any noise, esp. with the engine running, but you can hear a lot of rattling/tin if the engine is running rough, like too slow of an idle. |
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KTPhil Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006 Posts: 34003 Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 2:27 pm Post subject: Re: Red light while revving low (sorry, no creative title this time) |
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lboos wrote: |
Sounds like your idle rpm is just too low, that would cause the light to flicker at idle, also can cause noise because of a rough idle. increase your idle rpm.
I don't think you could hear the VR making any noise, esp. with the engine running, but you can hear a lot of rattling/tin if the engine is running rough, like too slow of an idle. |
When the old style regulators get ready to fail, they click like that. |
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8bit Innovations Samba Member
Joined: August 14, 2019 Posts: 160
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Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:37 pm Post subject: Re: Red light while revving low (sorry, no creative title this time) |
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Adressing the most recent responses:
1. A quick check on the engine compartment and the pulley the correct one. Since it is a 67, the engine tin needs holes for the preheat, and in the one I have the pulley fits with almost no gap at all. Thanks for the suggestion anyway!
2. Today I drove the car again. The light came back on at random times. Never while driving, but at some stops it came on and at some it didn’t. Could be idle, however it may be something else combined with idle. Since the engine feels exactly the same as it felt when the light didn’t come on.
3. I suspected also that the regulator itself may be failing. However, I can’t be sure if it always rattled. In some of my older threads, I mentioned that I removed my door mechanism. What I never mentioned was that after installing the door panel, the armrest rattled a lot. Only after replacing the armrest like I planned to did I notice the VR rattle. However, before I noticed the rattle, the light were dimming everytime I drove at night. Would you suggest replacing only the generator, or the generator and regulator too? _________________ -8Bit
67 Bug Puerto Rico spec Deluxe sedan Fontana Grey (Acquired from original owner’s family)
Last edited by 8bit Innovations on Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:54 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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8bit Innovations Samba Member
Joined: August 14, 2019 Posts: 160
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Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:53 pm Post subject: Re: Red light while revving low (sorry, no creative title this time) |
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Reading in more detail at the responses here, some of you have said that it’s normal for regulators to make a faint clicking noise. Is there an explanation as to why do regulators make noise normally? _________________ -8Bit
67 Bug Puerto Rico spec Deluxe sedan Fontana Grey (Acquired from original owner’s family) |
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KTPhil Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006 Posts: 34003 Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26785 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 5:49 pm Post subject: Re: Red light while revving low (sorry, no creative title this time) |
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Old regulators have moving parts inside, so they probably do make a noise.
It could fail in a way where it makes more noise. Other times it quits entirely if the contacts weld solid which would be silent but deadly.
Solid state regulators do not, but they might emit a high frequency humm which none of us can hear because of age
If the generator tests good replace the regulator, or, probably just replace the regulator. It's worth the risk of having a spare if you guess wrong. |
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8bit Innovations Samba Member
Joined: August 14, 2019 Posts: 160
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Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 5:52 pm Post subject: Re: Red light while revving low (sorry, no creative title this time) |
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Now I understand how those old school regulators work. I remember that my mechanic talked about something inside the regulator that opened and closed rapidly. However, he never said that it was bad. Instead, he said that the noise was caused by the generator making way too little electricity. Is that true? Or do failing generator not affect regulator noise? Either way, I’ll be getting a solid state VR just in case. Might end up replacing both things out of fear of getting stranded. _________________ -8Bit
67 Bug Puerto Rico spec Deluxe sedan Fontana Grey (Acquired from original owner’s family)
Last edited by 8bit Innovations on Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:14 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Q-Dog Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2010 Posts: 8699 Location: Sunset, Louisiana
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Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:05 pm Post subject: Re: Red light while revving low (sorry, no creative title this time) |
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My generator has about 300,000 miles on it. Only have replaced brushes in it 3 or 4 times that I can remember. It takes a bit if abuse to kill a generator.
But I have probably replaced 8 or so regulators with that same generator. I highly recommend the solid state regulator. _________________ Brian
'69 Dune Buggy
'69 Beetle Convertible
'70 Beetle |
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8bit Innovations Samba Member
Joined: August 14, 2019 Posts: 160
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Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:20 pm Post subject: Re: Red light while revving low (sorry, no creative title this time) |
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Due to collective recommendations from people here and in the jbugs webpage, I have now ordered a solid state regulator. Mine may not be dead, but I still find that since the generator will be replaced the regulator should be replaced too. Either way the generator was due to be replaced since it was not factory correct. At least my grandpa and the mechanic know of a guy that has been rebuilding generators since my grandpa owned a peugeot back in the day, and he may be able to give the new generator a rebuild, since it is a bit rusty and it may not work properly, but at least it’s the push terminal one. Thanks for the suggestions and responses to everyone! I’ll give you an update when the stuff is installed. _________________ -8Bit
67 Bug Puerto Rico spec Deluxe sedan Fontana Grey (Acquired from original owner’s family)
Last edited by 8bit Innovations on Sun Apr 11, 2021 8:01 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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KTPhil Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006 Posts: 34003 Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:43 pm Post subject: Re: Red light while revving low (sorry, no creative title this time) |
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Search for "polarize generator" and consider doing that to your new gen. I've never had to, but some have needed it. |
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