Gas coming from exhaust?!

[69calibug]

Well I pulled the '69 Beetle out of the garage last week and ran it, and everything was fine. I registed it the other day and was about to take it to a local G2G, when I got out and found gas coming from the exhaust. It went for at least 10-12 feet down the driveway Huge amount of strait gas! I shut it off and left it, pissed! Despite being overhauled almost entirely by my dad in the last few years when he owned it, this car has been a CURSE on me. 2 weeks after I registered it last year, half the wiring harness burns! it sat for monthes as the ONLY person in the area willing was wiring it. So much for driving it last summer. I've paid $50 for VWs I pulled out of the mud and had way less problems with them.

Anyway, enough venting, what could be causing this? I havent touched it yet, but will check for gas in the oil, and check the plugs. There was no gas leaking anywhere I could see. The thing is the car was running fine through all this. Could it be a bad cylinder? something simpler?
I'm kind of teaching myself with this car, as no one around here works on air cooleds and no one has time to help me I refuse to give up and sell it, even though I could buy a finished bug for cheaper, learning to fix all this crap is half the fun. Thanks in advance, heres the only pic I have on here.

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'69 Beetle, '69 Beetle Convertible

[jhicken]

You need to spend a little more time and learn about your car. No need to get all worked up over something that may be really simple. If you understand how an internal combustion engine works, you'll realize that this liquid probably isn't gas. Gas, mixed with air, travels through your carburetor. This mixture runs through your intake manifold past the intake valve in the head and into a cylinder. It's compressed, and a spark ignites it and the burnt exhaust exits back through the head via the exhaust valve into the exhaust manifold, then into your muffler and finally out the tail pipe. If the car was running well, then all four cylinders are firing. It's highly unlikely any significant amount of gas could get through all that to flow out an exhaust pipe like you described.

Judging by the pic below, it's possible that the liquid dripping from your exhaust pipe is condensation. Because of hot air in your muffler, and the dampness of the air of your surroundings, condensation can build up inside. When you start it up it'll spray out the exhaust pipe. After about five or ten minutes it'll dry up and you wont see any more until the next time you start it if the conditions are the same. This water, mixed with exhaust gasses may smell a little gassy, but it's not pure gas. It's also not a problem.

Yes, learning to fix, and understand all this >is< fun, but you need patience and a couple good manuals. Buying a "finished" bug wont help because something like this can happen with it as well. Unless you know some of these basics, any vehicle can be a problem. The great thing about your bug is that it's so simple. Understanding the simple principles of fuel, compression and spark can help you troubleshoot most anything.

The more you work on it, the more you'll understand. The rewiring done last summer would have been a golden opportunity to learn about the electrical system. With a new wiring harness and a good wiring diagram, you probably could have done it yourself over a weekend.

Getting back to your problem. If I were in your shoes, first thing I'd do is get a fire extinguisher [you should always have one in your car anyway]. Pop open the hood and start your motor. If you see liquid coming from your exhaust pipe/s, collect it in a glass so you can get a better look at it. Diagnosing splatters on a driveway isn't the best way to do this. If it's kinda black it's probably just condensation. If that's the case, drive it for about a half hour and see if it's still squirting out. If it's a cool/cold rainy day, or if the temps are below 40 it may still happen. If it's a nice warm day, your problem should go away.

Now if the liquid is a relatively clear golden color, then it's probably gas. If the car is still running well, it's probably coming from somewhere else than inside the motor. If you indeed have a fuel leak, it'll really smell bad. Check all your fuel lines. Replace if necessary. Even look at the line that runs from the tunnel to the fuel pump. If all the lines look good, the only thing I can think of might be your intake manifold. Your heat riser [the little pipe in front of the exhaust manifold] allows warm exhaust to flow through it to warm the fuel mixture as it passes through the manifold. If somehow a hole developed through the manifold and into the riser it's conceivable that pure gas could leak through here and make it's way back down into the muffler and eventually out through the tail pipe. It's unlikely because these are two separate pipes that are tack welded together but if someone has been drilling or modifying your manifold, I guess it could happen.

I'm not a mechanic, I've just learned this stuff over the years through reading manuals and trial and error. Don’t' let problems make you crazy. Crazy is not a good mindset to solve any problems. Take your time, be methodical and consider it a challenge. That makes the success so much sweeter.

Good luck

-jeffrey

[69calibug]

Ok, a few things. It WAS gas, not condensation. I've owned enough cars to know which is which. I've had several VW people over that wanted to see for themselves, and all realized I wasnt full of shit when they had a hand full of strait gas. And condensation with a little fuel smell doesnt leave a residue many hours later on the concrete that still smells. I've checked the entire fuel system for external leaks and have found or smelled none.
This little problem is not what angered me, I'm used to this stuff. I couldnt fugure it out, so thats why I'm here asking so I can look into it. What angers me is the whole situation. First day on the road, and it's out again. A rebuilt engine (not by me) with most likely a flat spot on the cam, and all kinds of previous body damage I uncovered. The wiring was done by a profesional since I'd never done wiring before, and no one would help me. I'd much rather teach myself on a stereo install, or fixing a short than wiring an entire car right away. You have to start small. For example I bought a few old Solex carbs today to disassemble and rebuild, for the practice. Despite all this I'm not an idiot, just don't have alot of experience yet. I have a bentley in addition to a stack of other books, and keep a fire extinguisher in every car. I try not to do anything that will burn the car down, thats all.
Thanks for your advice, unfortunately it was at the end of a post that seemed very negative and made me look like an idiot.
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'69 Beetle, '69 Beetle Convertible

[jhicken]

I'm sorry, it wasn't my intention to offend you, I was trying to help. Levels of experience vary considerably on this board and in reading your post I figured that yours was limited.

I still stand by what I said. If your motor is indeed running well, firing on all four cylinders, it's highly unlikely that such a significant amount of gas could get by and come out your tail pipe. If you motor has recently been rebuilt, it's possible that it could run on three cylinders and seem somewhat normal. Loosen up your plug wires on your dizzy. Start the motor and with a pair of rubber-coated pliers, pull a plug wire off and see if there is a significant drop in performance. If there is, replace it and try another wire. If you find that when you pull a wire off nothing really happens then you have a dead cylinder. If you do have a dead cylinder then gas could get by and come out the tail pipe.

To figure out what is contributing to the dead cylinder, start by moving the end of the wire [the one you took off] back close to your dizzy and see if you see a spark. If you can get a spark, take off the dizzy cap and look inside, specifically at the area underneath where the plug wire attaches. Look real close, if you see a little line on the inside of the cap, kinda like cobweb, going from the terminal to another, then you have an arching problem. A new cap should fix this. Now if you are getting spark, shut the motor off. Make sure you secure all the wires at the cap and pull the plug from the dead cylinder. Lay it to the side with the plug wire attached and start the motor again. If you don't see a spark, replace the plug wire. This should fix it. If after determining that you are getting spark to the plug and it's still having this problem, pull the plug again. If it's really oily, you got ring problems or maybe worse. If it's not oily, replace the plug, check the gap and reinstall and see what happens.

If none of this helps fix the problem with the dead cylinder, plug the plug and check compression. If there is little or no compression, and you don't have any oil in the cylinder then check your valves. If your exhaust valve is not adjusted right it'll let the air/fuel mixture escape before the compression cycle completes and the plug fires. This might be another way that gas may slip by.

If everything checks out and you have fuel, compression and spark, and the cylinder is still dead, I don't have any more ideas. If when you initially checked the cylinders and all four appear to be firing fine, all four have good, relatively equal compression I don't know where to go either.

I hope this helps

-jeffrey

[69calibug]

Thanks! After pulling plug wires off the distributor, the cylanders are all fine. Havent checked the compression though. I learned how to adjust the valves, none were too far in. The oil had pretty much turned to gas. I believe the oil level rose to a point where the oil (now basically gas)was overflowing and ending up in the exhaust. After getting that crap out of there, out of the oil cooler as well, I filled it to the proper level and ran the car, no more gas. I had to drive it 10 miles or so today to meet the girl that drives the white '74 beetle and the gas level seemed to drop quick. After that the oil level was normal, no gas from the exhaust, but the oil was still getting gas in it. Hmm. A few people have suggested -A: Carb is dumping gas. or -B: Fuel pump? I'll have to check it over when I return from Virginia.
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'69 Beetle, '69 Beetle Convertible

[-Rusted_Radio-]

A. Carb
B. Fuel pump

A. the tank float might be sticking once the carb is filled and letting it keep filling and filling.

B. the fuel pump could have a hole in it. Might as well go with a electric fuel pump.

I seemed to have both problems when my case filled with gas. Ask if you have anymore questions. Also bad idea to drive with gas in the oil, no lube there. After this happened to me I drove it a little bit before I figured out what it was, after I got it fixed like 2 weeks later the engine locked up. But my local shop helped me out again....
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Wes
61 Beetle on 69 Frame
Siloam Springs, Ar

[USMCbug]

Rusted radio made some good points. Ive had this prob too with gas in the oil. It would start off by leaking out of the valve covers like a siv (sp). Then Id drain it and it would literally PISS oil/gas out of the drain plug. I changed the pump thinking there was a leak there. I still had fuel in the oil. I checked all the other usual suspects, plugs, wires, timing, etc. I eventually decided to to a rebuild and found that one of my heads were completely blown. The valve seats were totally worn and there was a crack inbetween the ports. this had fuel going back into the case becasue it wasnt firing on that cylinder. Yeah it ran like crap but i had just bought it and didnt know any better. It was my first bug in over 10 years. Anyway, I rebuilt it and put bigger pistons in it (87mm) with new heads and some other goodies and she ran fine and didnt leak gas into the case. Oh, and I also had fuel in my exhaust too but my bug ignited it on occasion and I had a nice blue pin flame out one of my exhaust pipes that was about 7 inches long.
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72 Super Beetle
73 Standard Beetle
79 Baywindow Bus
65 Split Window Bus
79 Baywindow Bus
71 Super Beetle (current)

"When war does come, my advice is to draw the sword and throw away the
scabbard."
- General Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson

[grub_thg]

Hi 69 Cali...I live just a few minutes away from you in Buffalo. If you're new to bugs, like I was a few years back, you will find these websites invaluable. There are so many idiosyncracies when it comes to old VW's that a certain amount of 'tribal knowledge' must be passed down rather than read about in the Bentley.

You're right about VW's in this area being fairly rare. There is a good club that meets in Buffalo...its called Volkswagen association of Western NY www.vawny.org. They used to have really good technical articles on the website, but now you have to be a member to get them. They are also having a car show the first week of July at one of the fairgrounds in the southtowns (its called Bugs in the Garden). That would be a great time for you to make connections and find out who in the area knows their 'stuff'.

Hope you have a good time in VA. If you have any burning questions some time, PM me and we can set up a call. Most importantly...Have fun with you Bug

[69calibug]

Thanks for the tips guys VA trip got a little delayed when the crappy Intrepid I was riding in had some trans problems, and we came home. Most likely some computer bits malfunctioned So i'll be going and coming back earlier to work on the bug. My goal is to make it to Canada for the show on Sunday(optimism )I realize it's horrible for the engine, I havent been driving it except for that one occation. But the engine isnt in great shape only and is going to be replaced soon.
and grub thg, we met you guys at the Rose Garden once this year(dubsinthebuff) and I'll be at the Rosegarden show definitely, and hopefully with my bug!
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'69 Beetle, '69 Beetle Convertible