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vwhammer
Samba Member
Joined: May 20, 2006
Posts: 998
Location: Boulder CO.
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 Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 9:10 am Post subject: Re: Lowered Vanagons - no more? |
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| MarkWard wrote: |
| As long as you can maintain the camber, caster and toe, either direction from stock ride height is fine. You do need to pay attention to bumpsteer changes and have an idea where your new roll center has moved to. |
Yes a lot of times lowering a car is bad for handling (if that's what you're going for) if all the above is not taken into consideration.
It's funny this thread popped up because some friends and I were just talking a couple days ago about lowered trucks and how they have all but disappeared, at least around our area.
Back in the late 90s and early 2000s a friend and I used to build bagged and/or lowered trucks all the time for people.
They were everywhere at car shows.
Now I just don't see them much anymore.
Perhaps the overlander mentality hit that scene as well.
_________________
Pretty normal daily driver build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=708418&highlight=
4x4 build
https://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/volkswagen-vanagon-4x4-conversion.162055/ |
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GoEverywhere
Samba Member
Joined: December 13, 2020
Posts: 516
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 9:21 am Post subject: Re: Lowered Vanagons - no more? |
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| vwhammer wrote: |
| MarkWard wrote: |
| As long as you can maintain the camber, caster and toe, either direction from stock ride height is fine. You do need to pay attention to bumpsteer changes and have an idea where your new roll center has moved to. |
Yes a lot of times lowering a car is bad for handling (if that's what you're going for) if all the above is not taken into consideration.
It's funny this thread popped up because some friends and I were just talking a couple days ago about lowered trucks and how they have all but disappeared, at least around our area.
Back in the late 90s and early 2000s a friend and I used to build bagged and/or lowered trucks all the time for people.
They were everywhere at car shows.
Now I just don't see them much anymore.
Perhaps the overlander mentality hit that scene as well. |
At least here in the PNW it has, every truck is running around with recovery boards and truck tents on them. You still see lowered ones every once in a while, but not nearly like you used to. |
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smeeegheeead
Samba Member
Joined: February 19, 2021
Posts: 48
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 9:26 am Post subject: Re: Lowered Vanagons - no more? |
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Yup. I've owned many lowered vehicles and can only describe it as just one of many trends that come in and out of popularity in the various car communities. You see the same flux in most niche communities.
As a comparison...remember when horrible fat rear tire choppers made on horrible reality shows were all the rage? Now you can't give them away.
Trends just come and go.
I personally have one lowered VW still and did so just for fun/reliving the good old days I guess. I wouldn't lower the van that I'm working on currently because I want to be able to drive in the woods. If I could afford to have a second beater van that I lowered? Sure, why not. |
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CanStan
Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2005
Posts: 1037
Location: Calgary, AB
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| Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 9:29 am Post subject: Re: Lowered Vanagons - no more? |
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| pnwkayaker wrote: |
Honest question: what's the appeal/draw of lowered cars/vans (not just Vanagons)?
I've seen many pictures of lowered cars that are barely over the ground, some even with big wheels and skinny tires, and I kept thinking to myself "that's probably a very bumpy ride, and you probably are always afraid of scratching the ground".
Is my above thought correct? Perhaps I'm over-thinking the possible drawbacks and they're super-fun to drive? I admit it, I've never ridden in a lowered car/van, so perhaps it's the smoothest ride in the universe, with fun cornering. |
That question could be asked the same way about lifted vehicles. I see a lot of jacked up pickups that I guarantee never drive over terrain they couldn't have at stock height. It's just a look they prefer for whatever reasons.
I've owned several lowered VW's, and they ride great (as long as it's done properly). I didn't go super far off the beaten path at stock height, so lowering doesn't change anything about where I camp now.
Maybe another way to look at it is how I personally don't care for perfect paint. I'd always be worried about getting scratches and door dings. When we camp, I don't want to worry about the kids bumping it with their bikes or hitting it with a ball. But crappy (or 'patina') paint definitely isn't for everyone. Lots of people don't get my reasoning, but I like it. To each their own I guess? |
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T3 Pilot
Samba Member
Joined: January 10, 2011
Posts: 1507
Location: Deep South of the Great White North
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| Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 9:31 am Post subject: Re: Lowered Vanagons - no more? |
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After dealing with all of the mechanical complexities to slam the Van, you then have to adapt to a whole menu of new lifestyle choices. Forget about drinking a coffee while driving....
This short, well produced video sheds some light on the scene.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPJ4uICZnXg
_________________
1988 Vanagon
The most important part in every vehicle is the nut behind the wheel...... |
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CanStan
Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2005
Posts: 1037
Location: Calgary, AB
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| Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 9:42 am Post subject: Re: Lowered Vanagons - no more? |
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| T3 Pilot wrote: |
| After dealing with all of the mechanical complexities to slam the Van, you then have to adapt to a whole menu of new lifestyle choices. Forget about drinking a coffee while driving.... |
That's very true. But then I guess there's a difference between 'lowered' and 'slammed'. Lowered can still handle nice, and take you 95% of the places a stock height car can go. Slammed means you leave car parts at every man hole cover and driveway entrance.
I know a guy with a 'slammed' Beetle. It's so low, the rear bearings don't get the gear oil that is supposed to travel down the axle tubes to them. So every time he goes on a 20min drive, he needs to jack up each side and get some oil down there. It doesn't really work, and he's constantly burning up bearings. But for reasons I can't comprehend, he loves the look and will never change it. Now that is my idea of a modification that makes a car undrivable. But whatever floats his boat... |
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GoEverywhere
Samba Member
Joined: December 13, 2020
Posts: 516
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 9:44 am Post subject: Re: Lowered Vanagons - no more? |
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| CanStan wrote: |
| T3 Pilot wrote: |
| After dealing with all of the mechanical complexities to slam the Van, you then have to adapt to a whole menu of new lifestyle choices. Forget about drinking a coffee while driving.... |
That's very true. But then I guess there's a difference between 'lowered' and 'slammed'. Lowered can still handle nice, and take you 95% of the places a stock height car can go. Slammed means you leave car parts at every man hole cover and driveway entrance.
I know a guy with a 'slammed' Beetle. It's so low, the rear bearings don't get the gear oil that is supposed to travel down the axle tubes to them. So every time he goes on a 20min drive, he needs to jack up each side and get some oil down there. It doesn't really work, and he's constantly burning up bearings. But for reasons I can't comprehend, he loves the look and will never change it. Now that is my idea of a modification that makes a car undrivable. But whatever floats his boat... |
Yikes, I love a low vehicle but I'd never go to the point of being undrivable. Thats why I went with air ride on mine, so I can get back up to any height I need for the conditions I'm driving in. |
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valvecovergasket
Samba Member
Joined: October 10, 2018
Posts: 1491
Location: pnw
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| Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 9:52 am Post subject: Re: Lowered Vanagons - no more? |
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i dig it! id happily drive that
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MegaSquirt resource - SpitfireEFI.com
gone, but not forgotten: '83 tdi westy - swap thread |
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11BC2
Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2017
Posts: 495
Location: Cool, California
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| Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 9:56 am Post subject: Re: Lowered Vanagons - no more? |
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My Bundeswehr Doka on H&R springs and Bilstein shocks.
Subaru fitment wheels with adapters.
On decent roads, its a great ride. Not so much on crap roads.
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Neil Davies
Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2005
Posts: 393
Location: Kidderminster, West Midlands, UK
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| Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:10 am Post subject: Re: Lowered Vanagons - no more? |
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| Ahwahnee wrote: |
| Squidfish wrote: |
| It's very popular in Europe (and Britain) |
So is Marmite. |
With good reason. Its awesome.
_________________
'67/'68 Cal Look Beetle, 2007cc, 48IDFs, 14.4 @ 93mph, Oct 2017.
'68/'70 Karmann Beetle, wife's project, progressing slowly.
'80 Devon Moonraker, wife's ratty but cool toy.
'86 Scirocco special project - still measuring up... |
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Neil Davies
Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2005
Posts: 393
Location: Kidderminster, West Midlands, UK
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| Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:27 am Post subject: Re: Lowered Vanagons - no more? |
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I'm lowering our '80 Devon, only 40mm, because I prefer the look of a slightly lowered vehicle to stock. My Beetle has a lowered front end, my wife's cab will be the same. My Ghia was too low when I got it, so I raised it a bit.
Practically, it should make it a little less wobbly in corners, and allow the Timbertechs high top to fit in to MOT stations and so on. The 16" wheels will have commercial tyres with a lower profile than stock but still the same overall rolling radius.
Having said all that, some of the jacked up ones look bloody amazing!
_________________
'67/'68 Cal Look Beetle, 2007cc, 48IDFs, 14.4 @ 93mph, Oct 2017.
'68/'70 Karmann Beetle, wife's project, progressing slowly.
'80 Devon Moonraker, wife's ratty but cool toy.
'86 Scirocco special project - still measuring up... |
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jimf909 
Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2014
Posts: 7466
Location: WA/ID
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| Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:00 am Post subject: Re: Lowered Vanagons - no more? |
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I will probably never own a lowered Vanagon or chopped car or bobber motorcycle but seeing one well executed always makes me smile. The popularity ebbs and flows. Nowadays, pre-dystopian overlanding ruggedness is trendy so everything is getting lifted whether it needs it or not.
Post lowered or slammed Vanagons here
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0
_________________
- Jim
| Abscate wrote: |
Do not get killed, do not kill others.
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Current: 1990 Westy Camper - Bostig RG4, 2wd, manual trans w/Peloquin, NAHT high-top, 280 ah LFP battery, 160 watts solar, Flash Silver, seam rust, bondo, etc., etc.
Past: 1985 Westy Camper - 1.9 wbx, 2wd, manual trans, Merian Brown, (sold after 17 years to Northwesty who converted it to a Syncro). |
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16865
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:09 am Post subject: Re: Lowered Vanagons - no more? |
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i lowered my 84 camper for a couple reasons
1) the stock suspension made it look goofy. i don't need a foot of room between the top of the tire and bottom of the wheel well
2) it was a bit of a bitch to heave yourself in/out of the slider. my wife and kid both bitched about this. i can see a twisted ankle coming my way
i'm also going to run 17"s because i want to fool with gearing a bit and there is a better selection of sizes to play with
everything else i own is lowered as well. when done right it's worth it imho.
now....what i don't get is the "stanced" bullshit.
_________________
| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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GoEverywhere
Samba Member
Joined: December 13, 2020
Posts: 516
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:12 am Post subject: Re: Lowered Vanagons - no more? |
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| Man, knowing the limits of what it takes to get mine as low as it is makes me wonder how much cutting those ones laying frame took to get that low. I can't get mine any lower than it is without cutting the wheel arches. |
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GoEverywhere
Samba Member
Joined: December 13, 2020
Posts: 516
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:13 am Post subject: Re: Lowered Vanagons - no more? |
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| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
i lowered my 84 camper for a couple reasons
1) the stock suspension made it look goofy. i don't need a foot of room between the top of the tire and bottom of the wheel well
2) it was a bit of a bitch to heave yourself in/out of the slider. my wife and kid both bitched about this. i can see a twisted ankle coming my way
i'm also going to run 17"s because i want to fool with gearing a bit and there is a better selection of sizes to play with
everything else i own is lowered as well. when done right it's worth it imho.
now....what i don't get is the "stanced" bullshit. |
Thats actually what started my quest to lower mine too. My wife is REALLY short (4'8") and was having problems getting in and outa mine at stock height. Now I just drop the airbags to the bottom, she hops in, and I air back up. |
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bobbyblack
Samba Member
Joined: May 21, 2015
Posts: 4349
Location: United States, Iowa
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| Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:37 am Post subject: Re: Lowered Vanagons - no more? |
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| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
i'm also going to run 17"s because i want to fool with gearing a bit and there is a better selection of sizes to play with
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Would you mind letting us know what 17's are available? I'm having a hard time finding the right rated ones. I'd definitely consider 17" rims!
_________________
'87 Westy 'Flossie','86 Westy 'R1','86 tintop GL - Subi2.2 'J2','83.5 stock tintop L 'ZoomBus','74 Karmann Ghia, '63 Notch |
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vwhammer
Samba Member
Joined: May 20, 2006
Posts: 998
Location: Boulder CO.
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| Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:57 am Post subject: Re: Lowered Vanagons - no more? |
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| bobbyblack wrote: |
| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
i'm also going to run 17"s because i want to fool with gearing a bit and there is a better selection of sizes to play with
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Would you mind letting us know what 17's are available? I'm having a hard time finding the right rated ones. I'd definitely consider 17" rims! |
This is pretty straight forward if you know the weight of your van.
Go to tirerack.com.
Search for tires by size.
Type in the size you are looking for.
Pick a tire you like.
Scroll down a little.
Click the specs tab.
Check the number under the "max load" column.
Multiply that number by 4.
If that number is more than the weight of your van then those tires will work.
EDIT: to be on the safe side you can use Tireracks recommendation:
"P-metric tires used on passenger cars and station wagons are rated to carry 100% of the load indicated on the tire's sidewall (or listed for the tire in industry load/inflation charts). However, if the same P-metric tires are used on light trucks, (pickup trucks and sport utility vehicles for example), their carrying capacity is reduced to 91% of the load indicated on the tire's sidewall. This reduction in load results in causing light truck vehicle manufacturers to select proportionately larger P-metric sized tires for their vehicles to help offset the forces and loads resulting from a light truck's higher center of gravity and increased possibility of being occasionally "overloaded.""
_________________
Pretty normal daily driver build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=708418&highlight=
4x4 build
https://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/volkswagen-vanagon-4x4-conversion.162055/ |
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bobbyblack
Samba Member
Joined: May 21, 2015
Posts: 4349
Location: United States, Iowa
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| Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 1:01 pm Post subject: Re: Lowered Vanagons - no more? |
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| vwhammer wrote: |
... then those tires will work.
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From severely and painfully direct experience with my Transporter at a Legally bound service station. Nope, Sorry chum, but you get that rig up in the air, tires off, then they tell you they cant put anything on other than C or better. What happens then? You might be days away from a familiar place, etc. and you are screwin the pooch. What can you do? Have them put the rims on without tires and roll it somewhere? I don't think that same kind of place would even do that. It's up on the lift til you settle the dispute, and the law is on their side.
Too bad stories like that are not more well known.
And, so sorry for those folks that haven't yet found out..
Choosing tires isn't about what size YOU think can work, its what WILL work when you are somewhere far far from your comfort zone.
And, that is why I am asking for explicit examples. I'd like to try 17" rims, really.
-bobby
_________________
'87 Westy 'Flossie','86 Westy 'R1','86 tintop GL - Subi2.2 'J2','83.5 stock tintop L 'ZoomBus','74 Karmann Ghia, '63 Notch |
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vwhammer
Samba Member
Joined: May 20, 2006
Posts: 998
Location: Boulder CO.
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| Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 1:23 pm Post subject: Re: Lowered Vanagons - no more? |
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Yeah that's a real bummer but I can tell you that I would never go back to that shop.
The actual load of the tire is printed right on it and the GVWR is printed right on the vehicle.
It's simple math.
If they can't understand that then no one should be taking anything to that shop.
They are not the engineers that designed the tires or the van so the only place a policy like that would come from is a screw up on their part somewhere in the past that they were held accountable for.
Anyway I don't want to derail the OP's topic any further so that's the end of my contribution to the topic.
_________________
Pretty normal daily driver build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=708418&highlight=
4x4 build
https://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/volkswagen-vanagon-4x4-conversion.162055/ |
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bobbyblack
Samba Member
Joined: May 21, 2015
Posts: 4349
Location: United States, Iowa
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| Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 1:40 pm Post subject: Re: Lowered Vanagons - no more? |
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| vwhammer wrote: |
Yeah that's a real bummer but I can tell you that I would never go back to that shop.
...
Anyway I don't want to derail the OP's topic any further so that's the end of my contribution to the topic. |
Ok, ya. I am looking to lower mine as well, AND want to have 17" rims, too.
But, sometimes thinking thing through makes sense. Lets say you are on a nice tour of 5 states, and you have just one spare. There are plenty of scenarios that leave you with two or more flats at the same time. Not likely, but they do happen. So, you are taken by flatbed to someplace and they get you in. What then? The rest of your tour trip team is looking at you like you are no longer the smart guy. You are demoralized, and the shop now has you for as long as they like, and for as much as they can take. And worse than that, if you've got a Syncro? What, fly in 4 tires and rims and all the hardware from GW/RMW/BD? ? ? I mean seriously, what you think is actually not the important thing here at all, its what a shop is legally able to do. Just because you didn't know the law of that area, or about that shop doesn't mean you are going to have a good day.
Maybe you can route your trip away from states that have those kind of laws, I don't know. I just know what happened to me.
Rant over, sorry.
-bobby
_________________
'87 Westy 'Flossie','86 Westy 'R1','86 tintop GL - Subi2.2 'J2','83.5 stock tintop L 'ZoomBus','74 Karmann Ghia, '63 Notch |
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