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21golden007 Samba Member
Joined: May 11, 2020 Posts: 112 Location: Grand Rapids Michigan
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Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:59 pm Post subject: Beam/Delrin bushing/trailing arm questions |
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6" wider beam, thru rods for coilovers, 4x1 latest rage arms, Delrin bushings. Everything new.
Question 1. Sorry for my novice but the trailing arms are supposed to move inside the Delrin beam bushings, the Delrin beam bushings are not supposed to move inside the beam, correct? because right now its the opposite. The delrin beam bushings dont fit overly tight inside the beam and move pretty easy. The trailing arms fit fairly snuggly inside the delrin bushings but not overly tight. I didn't have to ream them or anything (like ive heard some people have to do). I was able to easily push them in by hand with grease, but when I move the spindle up and down its definitely the bushings moving inside the beam easier than the trailing arms moving inside the bushings.....
Solutions on the right way to fix? one solution would seem to be "gluing" with some kind of adhesive the bushing into the beam but I'd hate to know how much I'd curse and throw things when I need to remove the bushing in the future.
Question 2. Regarding the through rods and trailing arms, one thing that doesn't make sense is that on the arms, there is a tapered weld as you can see in the pic below. Looking at thisIt seems that if you tighten the through rods at all, you're just going to push the tapered weld into the delrin bushing causing it to not move freely. Are the through rod nuts supposed to be that loose that you barely hand tighten them to avoid pushing the weld into the bushing? Am I missing something here?
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dustymojave Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2007 Posts: 5802 Location: Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
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Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:06 pm Post subject: Re: Beam/Delrin bushing/trailing arm questions |
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That taper is identical to stock VW arms. Fabricated front arms for use with coilovers, and thus with through rods, generally have a flat surface of the inboard side of the inner gusset to contact the end of the bushing, so many delrin bushings are made with a flat face. You could either get the bushings cut with a taper, or exchange them for bushings that are already tapered. _________________ Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet. |
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21golden007 Samba Member
Joined: May 11, 2020 Posts: 112 Location: Grand Rapids Michigan
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Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:44 pm Post subject: Re: Beam/Delrin bushing/trailing arm questions |
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dustymojave wrote: |
That taper is identical to stock VW arms. Fabricated front arms for use with coilovers, and thus with through rods, generally have a flat surface of the inboard side of the inner gusset to contact the end of the bushing, so many delrin bushings are made with a flat face. You could either get the bushings cut with a taper, or exchange them for bushings that are already tapered. |
Ok got it. If found the ones that have the taper. What about the fact that the bushings move freely inside of the beam? should I adhesive them into the beam? I cant find anything about anyone having this issue. |
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dustymojave Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2007 Posts: 5802 Location: Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
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Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:12 pm Post subject: Re: Beam/Delrin bushing/trailing arm questions |
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The bushings SHOULD be a light press fit into the beam tubes.
Then the arms should be a snug slip fit into the bushings. Maybe snug enough to barely hold the arm up without the spindle.
If the arms fit into the bushings OK, then a slip fit of the bushings into the beam is not a major issue. Not right, but not catastrophic either.
But if the bushings clack around inside the beam tube, then they NEED to go straight back to the seller.
I've encountered that before. _________________ Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet. |
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jsturtlebuggy Samba Member
Joined: August 24, 2005 Posts: 4496 Location: Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
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Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 3:03 pm Post subject: Re: Beam/Delrin bushing/trailing arm questions |
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What I do and has been in off-road racing for many years is to use a set screw installed into the beam to keep bushings from rotating
A 1/4” fine thread set screws works, also the zero fitting helps too.
I drill and tap the beam for each bushing and drill all the way through bushing with arm removed. And then install arm and thread set screw into beam. Tighten set screw until it contacts arm and back it out at least a turn so it is not contacting arm.
I install the zero fittings on back side of beam so they don’t get damaged.
And idea I copied from Chenowth beam
Some of the bushings available already have holes in them for this purpose.
I use Super Lube multi-purpose synthetic grease for the trailing arms.
_________________ Joseph
Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
Elrod Motorsports
Motion Tire Motorsports
Having fun with Dune Buggies since 1970
Into Volkswagens since 1960 |
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21golden007 Samba Member
Joined: May 11, 2020 Posts: 112 Location: Grand Rapids Michigan
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Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:50 pm Post subject: Re: Beam/Delrin bushing/trailing arm questions |
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[quote="jsturtlebuggy"]What I do and has been in off-road racing for many years is to use a set screw installed into the beam to keep bushings from rotating
A 1/4” fine thread set screws works, also the zero fitting helps too.
I drill and tap the beam for each bushing and drill all the way through bushing with arm removed. And then install arm and thread set screw into beam. Tighten set screw until it contacts arm and back it out at least a turn so it is not contacting arm.
I install the zero fittings on back side of beam so they don’t get damaged.
And idea I copied from Chenowth beam
Some of the bushings available already have holes in them for this purpose.
I use Super Lube multi-purpose synthetic grease for the trailing arms.
seems like a good fix. I'll probably do this, thanks. |
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dustymojave Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2007 Posts: 5802 Location: Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
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Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:19 pm Post subject: Re: Beam/Delrin bushing/trailing arm questions |
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Gets my thumbs up. _________________ Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet. |
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PhillipM Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2010 Posts: 595 Location: UK
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Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:36 pm Post subject: Re: Beam/Delrin bushing/trailing arm questions |
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I always make mine a tight fit in the beam, sure you can stop them rotating in the beam with set screws, but that won't stop them moving around from the clearance and leading to your geometry being sloppy |
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dustymojave Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2007 Posts: 5802 Location: Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
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Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 4:00 pm Post subject: Re: Beam/Delrin bushing/trailing arm questions |
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More thumbs up.
As I said above, "The bushings SHOULD be a light press fit into the beam tubes." _________________ Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet. |
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21golden007 Samba Member
Joined: May 11, 2020 Posts: 112 Location: Grand Rapids Michigan
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Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:39 pm Post subject: Re: Beam/Delrin bushing/trailing arm questions |
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PhillipM wrote: |
I always make mine a tight fit in the beam, sure you can stop them rotating in the beam with set screws, but that won't stop them moving around from the clearance and leading to your geometry being sloppy |
What do you mean "make them a tight fit"?, they kind of are what they are when you buy them aren't they?
They aren't by any means sloppy in the beam but the do move around fairly freely. |
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stevebaz Samba Member
Joined: March 14, 2008 Posts: 189 Location: El Monte CA
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jsturtlebuggy Samba Member
Joined: August 24, 2005 Posts: 4496 Location: Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
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Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 9:21 am Post subject: Re: Beam/Delrin bushing/trailing arm questions |
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The beam bushings should be a light press fit into beam. I use a dead blow mallet and block of wood to seat bushings in beam.
Bushings come in different outside diameter, about .010” steps to fit different size tubing.
KarTek shows the different sizes available of the bushings on their website.
I just heard from a friend that German Auto/SACO has closed down. So in near future their products may become unavailable. _________________ Joseph
Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
Elrod Motorsports
Motion Tire Motorsports
Having fun with Dune Buggies since 1970
Into Volkswagens since 1960 |
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77charger Samba Member
Joined: November 12, 2005 Posts: 1492
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Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 3:41 pm Post subject: Re: Beam/Delrin bushing/trailing arm questions |
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Always good to take measurements for the beam i never had to hammer them in hard I like ones i can tap in with a small 2x4.Then i can ream them for final fitment on my arms.
Without a reamer you will never get the arms in their correctly. _________________ Click to view image
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PhillipM Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2010 Posts: 595 Location: UK
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Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2021 7:27 am Post subject: Re: Beam/Delrin bushing/trailing arm questions |
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21golden007 wrote: |
What do you mean "make them a tight fit"?, they kind of are what they are when you buy them aren't they? |
I make my own.
But as above, they should be a light interference/press fit into the beam, so they need driving in with a hammer and shouldn't move about freely at all. |
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