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jrcstudios Samba Member
Joined: March 31, 2020 Posts: 33 Location: Thomasville, GA (near Tallahassee)
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Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:20 am Post subject: Boxeer EA288 TDI engine Air Conditioning Help! |
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I'm looking to chat with anyone who has gotten the air conditioning compressor that comes with Greg's kit to work.
Specifically:
1. Where did you source the lines that connect to the compressor and how did you connect them to the hoses?
2. How do you control the "control valve" since this is not a typical clutch style compressor?
3. do I need to add compressor oil? |
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MarkWard Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005 Posts: 17009 Location: Retired South Florida
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Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:44 am Post subject: Re: Boxeer Ea288 TDI engine Air Conditioning Help! |
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I have no experience attempting what you are trying to do. We owned a JSW TDI before VW was kind enough to buy it back. A common failure of that compressor was the valve that has the "secret" in it that is controlled by a computer. When it failed you'd start with intermittent cooling. Dealer fix was to replace the compressor, but the valve is available and can be swapped in.
I have a compressor from a 98 TDI. I found hose adapters to go from the compressor to the standard ac hose o ring fittings. If you had the original manifold, someone could weld replacement hose ends on to work with conventional hose if you can't find adapters.
I imagine you'll need to figure out a way to manage the compressor valve. Seems to me, the path of least resistance would be to adapt a compressor from an earlier vw. My advice would be to go over to TDIclub.com. If it's possible, someone has likely done it. There is a conversion thread. https://forums.tdiclub.com/index.php?forums/tdi-conversions.63/
I ran my ALH without a compressor for a couple years by utilizing a smaller belt that drove just the Alternator. No power steering on my van. And yes, the compressor needs oil, but without it being connected it will pump out the oil when the engine starts. I'm guessing, no support for this? _________________ ☮️ |
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skills@eurocarsplus Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007 Posts: 16803 Location: sticksville, ct.
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Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:00 am Post subject: Re: Boxeer Ea288 TDI engine Air Conditioning Help! |
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jrcstudios wrote: |
Specifically:
2. How do you control the "control valve" since this is not a typical clutch style compressor?
3. do I need to add compressor oil? |
i'm going to give you a hugely abbreviated version on VDC (variable displacement compressor) control.
the long story short is yes, it's always spinning. the Euro's i work with have about the same strategy in terms of controlling them...lot's of sensors and a low speed CAN network.
basically the control head (dash controls) send a PWM signal to the compressor which controls the valve/solenoid. you have an ambient temp sensor, in cabin temp sensor and evaporator temp sensor.
all of these determine how the compressor responds. mark is correct, easiest thing to do is "backdate" a clutched compressor or find a way to have it run "wide open" and let the pressure switches kill power to to it.... BUT you have to figure out how the valving/solenoid works on that compressor to "dump" pressure back into itself when not in use
basically when i say "dump pressure" back into itself i mean you have to figure out how the compressor is set up to NOT make any pressure when not in use. usually when the solenoid isn't powered it's in 'bypass' but some systems work backwards and the solenoid is constantly using some power
FWIW, most cars with VDC's have people complain about poor cooling...even when the system is working as designed...nature of the beast with VDC's.
yes, i would check the oil in it, and usually its NOT regular PAG oil in them _________________
gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
Jake Raby wrote: |
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
Brian wrote: |
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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Zeitgeist 13 Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009 Posts: 12103 Location: Port Manteau
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Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:45 am Post subject: Re: Boxeer Ea288 TDI engine Air Conditioning Help! |
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Post a pic of the engine bracket and maybe we can figure out an alternative compressor for you to use. I found it pretty easy to connect the donor Jetta hoses to the factory A/C setup on my ALH build. _________________ Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik? |
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Howesight Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2008 Posts: 3260 Location: Vancouver, B.C.
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Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:43 am Post subject: Re: Boxeer Ea288 TDI engine Air Conditioning Help! |
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The easiest path forward, since you are an engineer, is to figure out what PWM signal the Variable Displacement Compressor (VDC) solenoid requires.
In all the VDC units I have seen, the VDC valve just allows a certain amount of refrigerant pressure to either increase or bleed off (internally) refrigerant pressure which operates a plunger device which alters the angle of the swash plate. You can design a circuit which provides the PWM signal to the compressor valve and the circuit itself can be operated by something as simple as a rotary potentiometer. Obviously, you will need to know the PWM hertz and duration in milliseconds which are required to achieve the range from full displacement all the way down to minimum displacement.
Regarding fittings and hoses, that part is easy and straightforward:
1. Go to an auto recylcer and buy the hard lines that connect to the compressor.
2. Cut the factory hard line where it suits your routing and attach a "wled-on" fitting which will allow you to crimp on a standard AC hose. This fitting from Nostalgic Air is an example:
https://nostalgicac.com/fittings-hose-kits/ac-fittings/10-weld-on-barb-aluminum-outside-fit.html
3. Note that you do not need to TIG weld the hose fitting onto the VW factory aluminum fitting. I have succesfully used aluminum brazing rod without any failures. Even the VW factory compressor blocks are brazed where the hard line meets the compressor block. Make sure all compressor oil is solvent-cleaned from the fitting before attempting the braze.
4. Here is a good source for aluminum brazing rod: https://www.muggyweld.com/product/super-alloy-5/?g...gLGuPD_BwE _________________ '86 Syncro Westy SVX |
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MarkWard Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005 Posts: 17009 Location: Retired South Florida
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Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:48 am Post subject: Re: Boxeer Ea288 TDI engine Air Conditioning Help! |
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Howesight wrote: |
The easiest path forward, since you are an engineer, is to figure out what PWM signal the Variable Displacement Compressor (VDC) solenoid requires. |
More than one way to skin a cat. Post up what you determine. _________________ ☮️ |
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Zeitgeist 13 Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009 Posts: 12103 Location: Port Manteau
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Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:45 am Post subject: Re: Boxeer Ea288 TDI engine Air Conditioning Help! |
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No cats should be harmed in this process.
If these solenoids are trouble prone, then it seems like a better longer term solution is to revert to a clutched compressor, which usually provide a long service life with few fiddly issues. _________________ Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik? |
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Howesight Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2008 Posts: 3260 Location: Vancouver, B.C.
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Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:53 pm Post subject: Re: Boxeer Ea288 TDI engine Air Conditioning Help! |
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Agreed a clutched compressor is simpler. But look at the tight space on the EA288 for the compressor! The EA288 compressor mounting looks different to anything else I have seen on VAG vehicles. If there is a simple way to kludge the solenoid to run the compressor wide open and install a clutch, that would be good.
The VDC compressor looks like it has space to accommodate a clutch. On my (take a Gravol, Casey) Subaru SVX compressor, it is also a VDC, but is clutched. When no current is supplied to the solenoid, the default is to run a maximum displacement. If the VW unit does this, the OP is halfway there. _________________ '86 Syncro Westy SVX |
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ScottShelley Samba Member
Joined: October 15, 2012 Posts: 596 Location: California
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Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 9:07 am Post subject: Re: Boxeer Ea288 TDI engine Air Conditioning Help! |
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Where is Greg? |
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jrcstudios Samba Member
Joined: March 31, 2020 Posts: 33 Location: Thomasville, GA (near Tallahassee)
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Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 5:42 am Post subject: Re: Boxeer Ea288 TDI engine Air Conditioning Help! |
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Howesight wrote: |
The easiest path forward, since you are an engineer, is to figure out what PWM signal the Variable Displacement Compressor (VDC) solenoid requires. |
This was what I was thinking.. Since it's there, I might as well experiment with it. If I burn it up, I'll go with another compressor, which will send me back to trying to use an electric (Prius or similar) so that I can run it with a power converter for camping with electrical hookup - I'll put a high output altenator in the place of the compressor. . but that's another story.. |
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jrcstudios Samba Member
Joined: March 31, 2020 Posts: 33 Location: Thomasville, GA (near Tallahassee)
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Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 5:47 am Post subject: Re: Boxeer Ea288 TDI engine Air Conditioning Help! |
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ScottShelley wrote: |
Where is Greg? |
Greg admitted at the time of purchase that he personally has not installed the AC for this conversion, but that "others have" |
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ScottShelley Samba Member
Joined: October 15, 2012 Posts: 596 Location: California
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Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 7:45 am Post subject: Re: Boxeer Ea288 TDI engine Air Conditioning Help! |
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Sounds about right. Isn't AC and option when you make the purchase? Seems, if that is the case, it should be supported.
jrcstudios wrote: |
ScottShelley wrote: |
Where is Greg? |
Greg admitted at the time of purchase that he personally has not installed the AC for this conversion, but that "others have" |
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MarkWard Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005 Posts: 17009 Location: Retired South Florida
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Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:06 am Post subject: Re: Boxeer Ea288 TDI engine Air Conditioning Help! |
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It would be nice to find someone with a stock application and take some readings. Its likely more of a duty cycle than an on off valve. I checked the TDI club forum and found the exact question in the conversion thread, but no replies from back in 2019. Perhaps sign up and bump that thread to the top. _________________ ☮️ |
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valvecovergasket Samba Member
Joined: October 10, 2018 Posts: 1491 Location: pnw
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Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:20 am Post subject: Re: Boxeer Ea288 TDI engine Air Conditioning Help! |
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ScottShelley wrote: |
Sounds about right. Isn't AC and option when you make the purchase? Seems, if that is the case, it should be supported.
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on the bright side, that might mean he should have a good way to eliminate it when/if you cant get it working... _________________ MegaSquirt resource - SpitfireEFI.com
gone, but not forgotten: '83 tdi westy - swap thread |
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ScottShelley Samba Member
Joined: October 15, 2012 Posts: 596 Location: California
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Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:03 am Post subject: Re: Boxeer EA288 TDI engine Air Conditioning Help! |
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It seems that the simple solution would be to find and older style compressor that fits on the mount and use the Vanagon Pressure Switches to control it. |
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jrcstudios Samba Member
Joined: March 31, 2020 Posts: 33 Location: Thomasville, GA (near Tallahassee)
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Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:26 pm Post subject: Re: Boxeer EA288 TDI engine Air Conditioning Help! |
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ScottShelley wrote: |
It seems that the simple solution would be to find and older style compressor that fits on the mount and use the Vanagon Pressure Switches to control it. |
I guess I should also point out that I've installed the Small Car Dash AC, so "NOTHING" is stock except two dash vents. Lots of variables on this one! |
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jrcstudios Samba Member
Joined: March 31, 2020 Posts: 33 Location: Thomasville, GA (near Tallahassee)
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Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:28 pm Post subject: Re: Boxeer Ea288 TDI engine Air Conditioning Help! |
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MarkWard wrote: |
.... Perhaps sign up and bump that thread to the top. |
I'll give that a try, I haven't been on TDI club since I put a '96 Passat TDI in an '82 Rabbit pickup. I miss that truck. |
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ScottShelley Samba Member
Joined: October 15, 2012 Posts: 596 Location: California
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Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:59 pm Post subject: Re: Boxeer EA288 TDI engine Air Conditioning Help! |
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I have the small car setup in My DOKA Syncro running the infamous ee20. Should not be too difficult to figure out using the instructions for the SC air and a regular compressor.
jrcstudios wrote: |
ScottShelley wrote: |
It seems that the simple solution would be to find and older style compressor that fits on the mount and use the Vanagon Pressure Switches to control it. |
I guess I should also point out that I've installed the Small Car Dash AC, so "NOTHING" is stock except two dash vents. Lots of variables on this one! |
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syncrogreg Samba Member
Joined: November 08, 2009 Posts: 742 Location: USA (Nashville TN)
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Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 7:56 pm Post subject: Re: Boxeer Ea288 TDI engine Air Conditioning Help! |
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ScottShelley wrote: |
Sounds about right. Isn't AC and option when you make the purchase? Seems, if that is the case, it should be supported.
jrcstudios wrote: |
ScottShelley wrote: |
Where is Greg? |
Greg admitted at the time of purchase that he personally has not installed the AC for this conversion, but that "others have" |
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We have had successful a/c installs just powering it at 100% in customer vans but recently spent the time to develop other variable PWM controller that is now available. We sell it for $20.
And it allow to vary the duty cycle from 0 percent to 100percent (100percent is equivalent to strait 12v)
I'm en engineer too and have been always supporting A/C . It's very easy. After your custom hoses are done. You should charge it and power the solenoid with 12v for 100% or add the PWM that I have available.
Thanks
Greg _________________ conversions: www.boxeer.com Common rail TDI and NOW PDK transmissions!!
travel pictures:
http://instagram.com/crepeattack/
- the Pastis build: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=434656&highlight=subaru+diesel |
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Howesight Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2008 Posts: 3260 Location: Vancouver, B.C.
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Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 8:20 pm Post subject: Re: Boxeer EA288 TDI engine Air Conditioning Help! |
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Hi Greg:
I don't have a TDi engine in my rig, but I do have a variable-displacement AC compressor that came on my 1994 Subaru SVX engine transplanted into my Vanagon a few years ago.
I am interested in your PWM controller, but don't see it on your website.
Can you provide a link? _________________ '86 Syncro Westy SVX |
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