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Cornell89 Samba Member
Joined: October 19, 2017 Posts: 44 Location: PA
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Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 9:53 am Post subject: 83.5 1.9L crank no start after dash removal |
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I picked up a new project van about a month ago - an 83.5 Westy w/ 1.9L. Over the past month it's always started easily on the 1st try and ran well. This week I started tearing it down for a complete respray and interior refurb.
After I removed the dashboard (but plugged the instrument cluster back in), the starter still cranks strong but the van won't start.
Here's what I've checked so far:
- checked for loose or shorted wires around the dash (in case I knocked something loose while removing the dash) and checked all fuses
- checked the ignition switch (I have a spare)
- checked and cleaned ground wires (engine & transmission ground wires and main battery ground cable)
- checked for fuel problems - normal start-up whine from fuel pump, cracked open the bleeder to confirm fuel flow, and removed injectors to confirm they are firing
- followed this diagnostic procedure to check for spark and check the hall sensor connector - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95PkgSavOCo
I've got spark and I've got fuel - what am I missing? |
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jlrftype7 Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2018 Posts: 3549 Location: Chicago
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Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 1:38 pm Post subject: Re: 83.5 1.9L crank no start after dash removal |
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Check for a loose or blown fuse in case something happened during Dash Removal- other than that, loose connection at ignition switch connector, like a pin that spread open a bit and isn’t making contact again once plugged in.
I’m a bit stumped too since you say you have fuel and spark , and removing the dash didn’t kill those two things . Will be interesting to hear what it was.
I had zero issues with my Dash removal to rebuild the heater box and other things last Feb., but there are dangling wires and connections that could go wrong for sure. .... _________________ '68 Westy- my first VW and vehicle/Bus- long gone.- sold it to a traveling Swiss couple....
'67 Type 3 Fastback, my 2nd car- gone
'69 Semi-Auto Stick Shift Beetle-gone
2017 MINI Coopers, our current DDs
‘84 Tin Top - Hilga....Auto |
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16CVs Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2004 Posts: 4020 Location: Redwood City, California
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Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 1:55 pm Post subject: Re: 83.5 1.9L crank no start after dash removal |
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Do you have a tachometer, Is it jumping? Do you hear the fuel pump cycle when you turn the key on?
Stacy _________________ 1987 Syncro Westfalia Triple knob (bastard)
1989 Syncro Tristar Triple knob "Swedish"
2013 Jetta Hybrid a true "Zwitter"
Samba member # 14980
Call anytime number 650 722 4914 .
Keep Your van running and upkept tastefully for the love of the hobby.
Don't let your van end up in an "abortions" thread. |
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MarkWard Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005 Posts: 17014 Location: Retired South Florida
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Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 4:30 pm Post subject: Re: 83.5 1.9L crank no start after dash removal |
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It might be coincidence. _________________ ☮️ |
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Cornell89 Samba Member
Joined: October 19, 2017 Posts: 44 Location: PA
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Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 10:21 am Post subject: Re: 83.5 1.9L crank no start after dash removal |
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jlrftype7 wrote: |
Check for a loose or blown fuse in case something happened during Dash Removal- other than that, loose connection at ignition switch connector, like a pin that spread open a bit and isn’t making contact again once plugged in. |
Already checked, and for the hell of it checked again - I even continuity tested all of the fuses - no problems found.
When I did my initial check for spark and injector spray I only check the driver's side. I went back this morning and checked the passenger side - good spark and injectors firing.
I've already check ground wires, but this reminds me of problem with an old tin top that turned out to be a bad negative battery cable - in that case, the terminal wasn't attached correctly. The battery cable on the current van appears to be original and is covered in electrical tape, and it was bent and twisted when I disconnected the negative terminal when removing the dash. |
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Cornell89 Samba Member
Joined: October 19, 2017 Posts: 44 Location: PA
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Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 1:20 pm Post subject: Re: 83.5 1.9L crank no start after dash removal |
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16CVs wrote: |
Do you have a tachometer, Is it jumping? Do you hear the fuel pump cycle when you turn the key on? |
No tach in the early 1.9L vans.
As for the fuel pump:
Cornell89 wrote: |
Here's what I've checked so far:
...
- checked for fuel problems - normal start-up whine from fuel pump, cracked open the bleeder to confirm fuel flow, and removed injectors to confirm they are firing
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I've also done a cold compression test - ~115 on #1, all others ~120. Not spectacular, but I don't think it's bad enough to prevent the van from starting. |
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brickster Samba Member
Joined: January 05, 2004 Posts: 503 Location: CO, USA
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Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 7:37 am Post subject: Re: 83.5 1.9L crank no start after dash removal |
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Have you attached a gauge to the fuel port? It would be good to know the actual pressure (vacuum line connected, then unconnected a la Bentley).
Is the spark you saw a bright, white spark?
Known good battery (load tested)?
Cap, rotor & plugs in known good condition?
You seem to know what you're doing, just wanted to throw some other thoughts out there. |
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MarkWard Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005 Posts: 17014 Location: Retired South Florida
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Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:00 am Post subject: Re: 83.5 1.9L crank no start after dash removal |
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Look at the factory manual page 97.55 and 97.56. Specifically wire connectors T2a and T2b. They go from the ignition switch starter solenoid circuit to the vans ECU pin 21. Both are indicated connectors behind the dashboard. If you unplug the ECU and crank the engine, you should have battery voltage at pin 21 of the ECU plug. If you do, you have eliminated the two T2 connectors. _________________ ☮️ |
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Cornell89 Samba Member
Joined: October 19, 2017 Posts: 44 Location: PA
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Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:12 am Post subject: Re: 83.5 1.9L crank no start after dash removal |
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Problem solved!
The non-start problem was tangentially related to the dash removal. When I took out the dash I first disconnected the negative battery cable. When I did, I had to bend it a bit to keep it out of contact with the battery terminal. As you can see from the photo below, the original cable is in pretty poor shape. When I was trouble-shooting I did clean up the terminal ends, but I guess there were enough cracked wires under all that electric tape to inhibit current flow.
I replaced the original battery ground cable with a 4-gauge generic from Advance Auto this morning ($8+tax) and it started right up.
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jlrftype7 Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2018 Posts: 3549 Location: Chicago
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Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:23 am Post subject: Re: 83.5 1.9L crank no start after dash removal |
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Cornell89 wrote: |
Problem solved!
The non-start problem was tangentially related to the dash removal. When I took out the dash I first disconnected the negative battery cable. When I did, I had to bend it a bit to keep it out of contact with the battery terminal. As you can see from the photo below, the original cable is in pretty poor shape. When I was trouble-shooting I did clean up the terminal ends, but I guess there were enough cracked wires under all that electric tape to inhibit current flow.
I replaced the original battery ground cable with a 4-gauge generic from Advance Auto this morning ($8+tax) and it started right up.
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congratulations, sometimes it’s the thing you were sure it wasn’t , since you had some electrical functions working.... _________________ '68 Westy- my first VW and vehicle/Bus- long gone.- sold it to a traveling Swiss couple....
'67 Type 3 Fastback, my 2nd car- gone
'69 Semi-Auto Stick Shift Beetle-gone
2017 MINI Coopers, our current DDs
‘84 Tin Top - Hilga....Auto |
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Zeitgeist 13 Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009 Posts: 12103 Location: Port Manteau
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Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:53 am Post subject: Re: 83.5 1.9L crank no start after dash removal |
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Everyone should be inspecting their cable ends. This is from an '84 with intermittent starting issues.
The breaks are on the bottom side and not visible while the clamp was in situ. _________________ Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik? |
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Cornell89 Samba Member
Joined: October 19, 2017 Posts: 44 Location: PA
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Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:55 pm Post subject: Re: 83.5 1.9L crank no start after dash removal |
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jlrftype7 wrote: |
congratulations, sometimes it’s the thing you were sure it wasn’t , since you had some electrical functions working.... |
What is most confounding to me is that a van can have a weak/damaged ground cable that's bad enough to prevent starting, but the starter still cranks strong and the plugs still spark. |
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