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LiamT1 Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2019 Posts: 16 Location: Midlands
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Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 12:23 am Post subject: Engine not starting |
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Hi all,
I have recently rebuilt my engine and it ran really well first turn of the key for the few times but when trying to start it it progressively took longer to fire up. It is now at a point where it doesn’t run, I can crank it over and it briefly sounds like it fires up but won’t rev and just dies.
I noticed that the new clear distributor cap I purchased was cracked and burnt massively. I changed this along with the points, rotor arm, coil and condenser.
I changed all these I have checked each spark and they appear strong.
I have rebuilt the carb again and that is all in good order.
The valves got lapped and seated when I had the heads worked.
I have set the static timing with a test light.
Fuel is getting into the carb.
I was just wondering whether anyone has experienced something similar to this as I do not know where else to look. It has hardly done any miles since the rebuild but ran sweet when it first went back in the car.
Thanks in advance |
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steviewde Samba Member
Joined: April 09, 2021 Posts: 31 Location: Germany
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Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 12:34 am Post subject: Re: Engine not starting |
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Hey Liam,
it's quite difficult with analysis "over the air".
First of all, every ICE is very simple in getting startet and running
It needs:
- fuel
- air
- ignition spark
All of these three in the right amount to the right time.
Did you check if the engine turns "easily" by hand? What did you rebuild? Did you separte the case halves?
the "Stevie" _________________ Being different, or being boring?
My projects:
"Sparkäfer", 1973
Karmann Coupé 1966
VW1302S, 1971
VW1303S, 1973 |
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Igpoe Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2019 Posts: 853 Location: South Boston, VA
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Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 1:09 am Post subject: Re: Engine not starting |
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Also need compression. _________________ '73 super. |
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LiamT1 Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2019 Posts: 16 Location: Midlands
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Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 1:17 am Post subject: Re: Engine not starting |
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That is the trouble to analyse what is potentially wrong with it. I thought it was possibly an air leak because I have fuel and spark but cannot find anywhere where they is an air leak, the inlet boots are tight and in good condition.
I did a complete engine rebuild and did separate the case halves. It all went back together easily and fired up first tine and ran really well to start with.
I can only think of doing a compression test but can’t see what would go that catastrophically wrong all of a sudden |
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Igpoe Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2019 Posts: 853 Location: South Boston, VA
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Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 1:33 am Post subject: Re: Engine not starting |
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I noticed that the new clear distributor cap I purchased was cracked and burnt massively. I changed this along with the points, rotor arm, coil and condenser.(quote)
Are you running the OG coil and voltage regulator? Is it even possible the firing order has somehow been changed? _________________ '73 super. |
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LiamT1 Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2019 Posts: 16 Location: Midlands
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Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 1:40 am Post subject: Re: Engine not starting |
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I have been given a known working coil from a friend to try as he has used it on his engine because my coil had failed. I haven’t checked the voltage regulator. Would that effect the car from running once fired up?
I have looked back at photos from when the engine was running well and I have the HT leads in the same locations |
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Igpoe Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2019 Posts: 853 Location: South Boston, VA
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Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 1:52 am Post subject: Re: Engine not starting |
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Too much electrical energy fried the cap and most likely the points and condenser. Just any coil and voltage regulator won't work. At this point we might do better with a description of your car and some pictures of your engine compartment. I don't see how you can trace the firing order from a picture. Do you have a service manual? Firing order is 1432 _________________ '73 super. |
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LiamT1 Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2019 Posts: 16 Location: Midlands
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Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 2:13 am Post subject: Re: Engine not starting |
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[
I hope this photo helps. I have the correct firing order and the car is a 72 1300.
I haven’t looked at the voltage regulator now you mentioned it, is there a way to test it?[/img] |
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Igpoe Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2019 Posts: 853 Location: South Boston, VA
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Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 3:38 am Post subject: Re: Engine not starting |
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Liam, my considered advice to you is to obtain a good manual if you can and return your motor to it's original complete condition or "stock". Use a distributor that was intended to be used with that carburetor, a coil that was engineered to be used with that distributor and alternator, a voltage regulator that "goes with" the entire electrical system. Your cooling system is incomplete. The air cleaner you're using will cause you problems eventually. But your motor IS clean _________________ '73 super. |
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Tom K. Samba Member
Joined: March 10, 2005 Posts: 1600 Location: Central Pennsylvania
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LiamT1 Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2019 Posts: 16 Location: Midlands
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Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 5:24 am Post subject: Re: Engine not starting |
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Hi, thank you for your replies. The engine is how it always has been from when I brought the car years ago and has ran like that for a few thousand miles until I took it off the road for the rebuild. The distributor is the same one that’s been on the car all this time and is just the cap and internals that I have changed.
Regarding the air cleaner, are those not ideal to use?
I have tried the distributor wires in other orientations to see whether this works but still nothing |
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Igpoe Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2019 Posts: 853 Location: South Boston, VA
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Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:34 am Post subject: Re: Engine not starting |
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Do you have a service or maintenance manual? The spark plug in no.1 cylinder needs its wire to go to the no. 1 position on the distributor which should align the mark inside the cap and on the body of the distributor to 4'o clock from overhead, yours is not. There are other ways it can be wired and still work. Your car will start and can be driven in a less than ideal state of tune with non-original parts in an unconventional and even dangerous manner if that is your desire. To answer your air cleaner question: Your cleaner filters cold air through the carburetor. The original is designed to route warmed air from the exhaust surround through hoses to the carb for a smoother, better atomized fuel charge. Your motor lacks these hoses as well as the air cleaner that would make use of them. We should not modify our engines this way unless we imagine we know better how a VW should be than the original engineers. Improvements and upgrades have successfully been created since those days but your motor not utilising any of these is unlikely to run nicely or last very long. But do it your way is ok by me because after all, it's your car. _________________ '73 super. |
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1968BUGMAN Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2019 Posts: 246 Location: Southern California
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Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 7:41 am Post subject: Re: Engine not starting |
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Your firing order is off. Also the timing is way the heck off. Redo the plug wires and then redo timing. The condenser usually points to cylinder # 3, so the back left. Also there should be a notch on the top of the dizzy when you take the cap off. This Notch should be in the front right for a 009. This is where the #1 plug wire should be. You should put the #1 there and then do the rest. 1, 4, 3,2 going clockwise. Make sure you know which cylinders are which. Back right is 1, front right 2, back left 3, front left is 4. Honestly the static timing never worked for me. Put the dizzy where it looks like it should be and it might start, or you can rotate it and crank it till it starts. Then you can use a timing light. Or time by ear. Should be about 30-32 btdc at full advance, this gives you about 10-12 at idle. _________________ 1968 Beetle Project | https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...ae8942450a
Installing a Stereo Into a Classic VW | https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9502179#9502179 |
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1968BUGMAN Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2019 Posts: 246 Location: Southern California
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LiamT1 Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2019 Posts: 16 Location: Midlands
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Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 7:49 am Post subject: Re: Engine not starting |
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Thank you all for your help. I will give that a go tomorrow and let you know. So #1 should be at the front right as you look at the engine, mine is currently on the rear left? |
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1968BUGMAN Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2019 Posts: 246 Location: Southern California
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Igpoe Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2019 Posts: 853 Location: South Boston, VA
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Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 9:30 am Post subject: Re: Engine not starting |
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If you get the wiring issue solved please either make use of the ducts from the fan shroud or plug them so the fan can keep your motor cool. _________________ '73 super. |
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1968BUGMAN Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2019 Posts: 246 Location: Southern California
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Starbucket Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2007 Posts: 4007 Location: WA
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Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 3:05 pm Post subject: Re: Engine not starting |
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Have you rechecked the valve clearance since you ran it to the point it stopped? As the parts mate in the gap can grow or shrink to the point the valves are being held open. |
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Pez Samba Member
Joined: September 16, 2003 Posts: 583 Location: Texarkana
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Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 3:52 pm Post subject: Re: Engine not starting |
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Shot in the dark, but is your distributor seated properly and clamp tight? _________________ Always chasing Squirrel's. |
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