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New GW 2.2 engine seeming to run hot
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spatiald
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:07 pm    Post subject: New GW 2.2 engine seeming to run hot Reply with quote

Hey All,

I just got a new rebuilt gw 2200cc engine installed in my 84 vanagon by my favorite mechanic. The issue is that the temperature gauge is now displaying hot in comparison to where it ran previously. It’s now up very close to the line on the high side. Maybe a quarter to eighth of an inch from the top of gauge.

My mechanic took a temp gun to the block, radiator, etc. and determined that the engine did not seem to be hot anywhere, no dead spots in the cooling system where coolant was not flowing, etc. So everything seems fine and that this is just the new normal for where the temp gauge runs.

I want to know if anyone else has seen or heard of this before? Does this surprise any of you?

My gut is that everything is ok but as you all know a temp gauge on the high side is not something any van owner is used to being ok with. What do you all think?
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MarkWard
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:15 pm    Post subject: Re: New GW 2.2 engine seeming to run hot Reply with quote

Idling hot does the radiator fan cycle on and off? What temps is the mechanic reading that causes him to think it’s the new normal. You need to be absolutely sure it’s not running hot. The engine is fitted with for heat fuses under the engine. If the engine overheats and the fuses melt, the warranty is void.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:17 pm    Post subject: Re: New GW 2.2 engine seeming to run hot Reply with quote

I'm assuming you know the conditions of the GW warranty. If you have any doubt this is something to get conclusive diagnostics on.

IMPORTANT NOTE: Engine failure due to improper installation, overheating, incorrect timing, insufficient oil, contaminated oil, oil additives, outright abuse, etc., will not be honored by warranty. GoWesty strongly recommends replacing your entire cooling system—this engine is not warrantied against damage resulting from overheating. Please read this article for more information.
https://www.gowesty.com/product/made-in-usa/24110/2200cc-engine-

EDIT: what Mark said...
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spatiald
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 7:11 pm    Post subject: Re: New GW 2.2 engine seeming to run hot Reply with quote

Thanks guys.

Fan has not come on yet at all. I’ve only driven it from the shop to my house. I can ask the mechanic tomorrow what temps he is measuring. I can say that he has installed dozens of GW and other engines in vanagons over 30 years and I’d trust him with my life. He was surprised to see it measuring higher too.

I’ll admit to not overhauling the entire cooling system. I’ve got a solid partial overhaul complete from the years of work. But couldn’t come up with the cash for all of that on top of the engine.

I understand the importance of making sure this is not wrong. Which is why I’m here.

It would be great to hear if anyone else has had this happen and I”m happy to hear your further thoughts Mark and Jim.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 7:18 pm    Post subject: Re: New GW 2.2 engine seeming to run hot Reply with quote

Once you have the temperatures, you'll know. I bought a cheap InfraRed gun (around $15).

It's possible that the cluster reads too high. Crazyvwvanman has posted a cool diag to see if the gauge reads properly.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 7:54 pm    Post subject: Re: New GW 2.2 engine seeming to run hot Reply with quote

Gowesty has a kit to recalibrate the temp gauge. https://www.gowesty.com/product/-/23433/temperature-gauge-calibration-kit-?v=

That said, I would put an inline coolant temp sensor into your hot pipe just before the radiator and see what the temps you are running actually are.

Get this (and make sure that little bolt is grounded to the chassis)
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

https://www.amazon.com/Dewhel-Aluminum-Temperature...amp;sr=8-3

and this
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

https://www.amazon.com/HOTSYSTEM-Temperature-Fahre...amp;sr=8-9

And whatever gauge holder that suits your fancy.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 7:55 pm    Post subject: Re: New GW 2.2 engine seeming to run hot Reply with quote

spatiald wrote:
Thanks guys.

Fan has not come on yet at all. I’ve only driven it from the shop to my house. I can ask the mechanic tomorrow what temps he is measuring. I can say that he has installed dozens of GW and other engines in vanagons over 30 years and I’d trust him with my life. He was surprised to see it measuring higher too.

I’ll admit to not overhauling the entire cooling system. I’ve got a solid partial overhaul complete from the years of work. But couldn’t come up with the cash for all of that on top of the engine.

I understand the importance of making sure this is not wrong. Which is why I’m here.

It would be great to hear if anyone else has had this happen and I”m happy to hear your further thoughts Mark and Jim.

Here’s hoping you just have an air bubble like our Mod DJkeev had with his Tintop- was running hot until he got it fully bled out after rebuilding the engine.
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Steve M.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:57 pm    Post subject: Re: New GW 2.2 engine seeming to run hot Reply with quote

You could be cheap like me and buy this from Amazon and run the thermocouples down through the rubber plug behind the heater cover that the hot water hose for the heater pass through and tape them to the inlet and outlet hoses to the radiator with "rescue tape".
You can watch as your thermostat opens.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B06XC6T8PX?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title

This has been on my floor since 2018!
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


All of 33 bucks now..
The 130° is on the radiator near the fan switch and the engine off so temp is rising.
Usually I see 20-30° difference in the inlet and outlet hoses. Sometimes better.

Temp after 2 miles at 45mph right after shutdown.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I think I remember seeing 76° on the return hose in Aug. doing 70mph in the Moab area.
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Last edited by Steve M. on Tue Apr 20, 2021 6:50 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:19 am    Post subject: Re: New GW 2.2 engine seeming to run hot Reply with quote

The radiator fan cycling on and off is a good indicator that the coolant is properly circulating. It’s an easy test that requires no special tools. First step would be to jumper the radiator fan switch and verify fan works.

Idling, When the fan cycles on note the stock temp gauge reading. At idle, the fan must cycle on and off. If the fan doesn’t turn on on low speed, it should eventually turn on high well before any damage occurs. If the fan cycles, this indicates coolant is properly flowing, thermostat is functioning, and radiator is dissipating heat.

If it passes, Then you’d take it out on the road.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:10 am    Post subject: Re: New GW 2.2 engine seeming to run hot Reply with quote

Questons:

- did you change the temp gauge sending element? if so, install the old one and see if the gauge is normal.

- did you put in a new thermostat? if so, try installing your old one.

- have you tested the radiator fan yet by jumpering the wires in the plug?

you have a very expensive engine at stake. personally, i consider a $114 radiator (GW price) mandatory for a new engine. they can be clean as a whistle inside, or 1/3 full of sludge that covers up the rad fan sensor so that it never 'sees' the coolant temp.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:30 am    Post subject: Re: New GW 2.2 engine seeming to run hot Reply with quote

in 2017 I did a test of various VW temp gauge sender calibrations in my daughter's 1990 VW Cabriolet. The same sender is used in our Vanagons.

Aftermarket senders can give some very wild hot temp readings. The conclusion was use an OEM or the Pelican. Altrom/NAPA was really bad.

See the link:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/vw-audi-technical-f...nders.html
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:49 am    Post subject: Re: New GW 2.2 engine seeming to run hot Reply with quote

new or poorly contacting sensor can be deceiving , also found when my headlights are on Arrow my gauge temp reads high
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 6:47 am    Post subject: Re: New GW 2.2 engine seeming to run hot Reply with quote

Yeah...... I'd park that puppy until you KNOW what temperatures you are running.

The radiator fan not coming on is either a sign you are running cool, or a sign of imminent failure looming on the horizon.

A good test is to sit and idle, watch the gauge and listen for sounds of trapped air boiling in the system.

As mentioned, my first bleed wasn't good.
It took several runs up to temperature and stops to fully cold to purge the air completely on my 2.1.

Now it never rises above the LED and the fan cycles dependably when in traffic or a drive in lane.

Dave
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 7:04 am    Post subject: Re: New GW 2.2 engine seeming to run hot Reply with quote

I had a similar issue with my Vanagon. It turned out to be a cooling fan problem.

The thread where I managed to solve it is here:

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=680389

The two speed fan set up on the Vanagon has a lot of weak spots. If the fan is not coming on, then you will have overheating issues.

Another problem people often have with the cooling fans is that sludge will build up on the sensor in the radiator, insulating it and preventing it from sensing that the coolant is getting too hot. Sometimes when you replace an engine, you kind of shake up the cooling system, and stuff gets dislodged and moved around. So you might pull your sensor from your rad bottom and see if it is all gummed up.

I would agree with the most recent poster here that an engine that runs hot is not "the new normal", it is an undiagnosed cooling system problem.

So I would not just "forget about it" and run the motor like that. There is no happy ending for a motor that runs hot all the time. That is an engine failure waiting to happen.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 7:34 am    Post subject: Re: New GW 2.2 engine seeming to run hot Reply with quote

Ok, I'll bite: did you by chance keep your 1.9 cooling system setup, or modify it to the 2.1 version? There could be a very simple explanation right in front of you if you have a coolant conversion. I know for sure of one Westy with seem-ably the same temp indication as you are describing. Some folks don't even know that a previous owner had done that, etc. I'd guess at the wrong temp sensor, IF the engine is running below 190F "hot". I've only ever seen temps above 200 when pushing hard in the high desert with a full load (family camping trip).
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 10:17 am    Post subject: Re: New GW 2.2 engine seeming to run hot Reply with quote

Quote:
Questons:

- did you change the temp gauge sending element? if so, install the old one and see if the gauge is normal.

- did you put in a new thermostat? if so, try installing your old one.


x2

Mine ran "hotter" after these items were changed.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:00 pm    Post subject: Re: New GW 2.2 engine seeming to run hot Reply with quote

Ok - tons of good info. Thanks everyone.

Some good news after doing further research with my mechanic. I put in a new thermostat with the engine. It turns out the old one I had was set to 80 degrees, the stock one gowesty sent is set for 87. So it makes sense that it would be “running hotter”.

We’re now testing resistance on the gauge and comparing to another ‘84 vanagons (different engine) resistance to see if we get a similar reading.

Between the IR gun readings and the knowledge of different thermostats I feel much more comfortable driving it. May even install the gowesty temperature gauge calibration if the temp gauge seems bad.

I’ll report back. Thanks again.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:51 pm    Post subject: Re: New GW 2.2 engine seeming to run hot Reply with quote

IR Gun readings are usually not accurate. Measure an ice cube and a black pot of boiling water. 🤔
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:03 pm    Post subject: Re: New GW 2.2 engine seeming to run hot Reply with quote

176° vs 189° .........

But the thermostat is controlling the warm up period, not the running temperature...... unless is is butt freezing COLD outside!

In warmer weather?? ..... pfft! ..... It makes no real difference in running temperature.

Thermostats control the MINIMUM TEMPERATURES not the maximum.

You really need to find out what temperature you are running at and more importantly........ IF your cooling fan is operating properly.
These are both stupid easy tasks to accomplish and your installing mechanic should have verified them.
Did he run it until the cooling fan cycled a few times?
I certainly hope so!

Dave
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2021 9:46 am    Post subject: Re: New GW 2.2 engine seeming to run hot Reply with quote

Ok back with what I think is final info here.

Yes we verified that the cooling fan cycles is cycling on correctly so no issues there.

And also confirmed with the other 84 vanagon that the resistance readings from the gauge are different - leading us to believe the gauge is faulty. With that info and the readings from the IR gun I’m feeling confident enough to use GW fuel gauge calibration kit to make the needle more accurate.

That being said - and fully understanding the importance of accurate cooling - I’m also thinking through the best option for a more direct continuous temp reading. Thanks for all the ideas in this post. Most of those seem relatively easy but I’ll do some more research to determine which is the most accurate.

I’m happy to get more thoughts on this and thanks for all the ideas floated thus far. Samba for the win - again!
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