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Lowlightmafia
Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2017
Posts: 91
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 Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:03 pm Post subject: M-code plate, is it an original 21-Window? |
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Hi, I’m new to the bus world and am looking at a 64(63) the vin says aug-63 but I don’t know how to check if it’s an original 21 window car. Went to look at the car and it looks good but rather have the vin checked. Let me know if you can help.
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EverettB 
Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000
Posts: 69827
Location: Phoenix Metro
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| Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:24 pm Post subject: Re: M-code plate, is it an original 21-Window? |
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The top line is 23 9 or 28 9?
The 9 is September so it's September 23/28, 1963 and Yes, a '64 model.
It looks like an original 21-Window to me since it doesn't have M-code 130.
130 = No Sunroof/ragtop, which would mean it's a 13-Window instead of a 21.
No 130 = 21-Window
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NUTSFORBUSES
Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2016
Posts: 560
Location: I don't recognize it anymore
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| Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:10 am Post subject: Re: M-code plate, is it an original 21-Window? |
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""The top line is 23 9 or 28 9?
The 9 is September so it's September 23/28, 1963 and Yes, a '64 model.
It looks like an original 21-Window to me since it doesn't have M-code 130.
130 = No Sunroof/ragtop, which would mean it's a 13-Window instead of a 21.
No 130 = 21-Window""
Lucky to have THE EXPERT at hand!
I have one: 20 8
427 027 081 114 530 195
Drop some pictures, check the skylights for codes, and of course if you have Belly Pans . Nothing is 100% certain, but you can observe factory install after owning one for a while. |
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Lind
Samba Member
Joined: November 06, 2000
Posts: 9915
Location: idaho
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| Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 6:18 am Post subject: Re: M-code plate, is it an original 21-Window? |
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| NUTSFORBUSES wrote: |
I have one: 20 8
427 027 081 114 530 195
Drop some pictures, check the skylights for codes, and of course if you have Belly Pans . Nothing is 100% certain, but you can observe factory install after owning one for a while. |
Lets see some pics of that. 530 is out of order. I have never seen that on an M-code plate.
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Braukuche
Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2004
Posts: 11005
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| Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 7:21 am Post subject: Re: M-code plate, is it an original 21-Window? |
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Does the VIN stamped in the engine compartment match the Mcode plate? Mcode plates can be screwed on...you want to make sure it matches the VIN stamped on the body and furthermore you want to examine the area around that VIN to insure it was not welded in.
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NUTSFORBUSES
Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2016
Posts: 560
Location: I don't recognize it anymore
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| Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:25 am Post subject: Re: M-code plate, is it an original 21-Window? |
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| Lind wrote: |
| NUTSFORBUSES wrote: |
I have one: 20 8
427 027 081 114 530 195
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Lets see some pics of that. 530 is out of order. I have never seen that on an M-code plate. |
Yeah, it was ordered w an ambulance step-kinda rare I guess. Of course a "Belly Pan" ambulance step! The 2332, IRS, 4 wheel disc brakes were added later. |
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teahead
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2019
Posts: 326
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:32 am Post subject: Re: M-code plate, is it an original 21-Window? |
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If you're going to spend big bux on this 21, ideally you'd have a zertificat to really prove what it is.
look underneath and see if the belly pans were welded in per OEM.
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Almanor23
Samba Member
Joined: November 20, 2019
Posts: 27
Location: SF Bay Area
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| Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 10:16 am Post subject: Re: M-code plate, is it an original 21-Window? |
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| Lind wrote: |
| NUTSFORBUSES wrote: |
I have one: 20 8
427 027 081 114 530 195
Drop some pictures, check the skylights for codes, and of course if you have Belly Pans . Nothing is 100% certain, but you can observe factory install after owning one for a while. |
Lets see some pics of that. 530 is out of order. I have never seen that on an M-code plate. |
Curious what you mean by '530 is out of order' ?. 530 is the ambulance step, my '61 23 has that on the M plate.
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Lind
Samba Member
Joined: November 06, 2000
Posts: 9915
Location: idaho
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| Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 7:04 pm Post subject: Re: M-code plate, is it an original 21-Window? |
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| Almanor23 wrote: |
| Lind wrote: |
| NUTSFORBUSES wrote: |
I have one: 20 8
427 027 081 114 530 195
Drop some pictures, check the skylights for codes, and of course if you have Belly Pans . Nothing is 100% certain, but you can observe factory install after owning one for a while. |
Lets see some pics of that. 530 is out of order. I have never seen that on an M-code plate. |
Curious what you mean by '530 is out of order' ?. 530 is the ambulance step, my '61 23 has that on the M plate.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1985766.jpg |
The M-codes follow a pattern where the 3xx or 4xx USA spec package comes first, then the rest of the codes are in numerically ascending order. In that list, the 530 should be the last code. Like it is on your plate, and your plate is the rare one where the M-codes are completely in numerical order.
I have seen a couple M-code plates which were stamped wrong in one way or another. I am always interested to see the errors. I saw one bay window bus with the VIN plate on the dash mis-stamped.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=1722893
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NUTSFORBUSES
Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2016
Posts: 560
Location: I don't recognize it anymore
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| Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:51 pm Post subject: Re: M-code plate, is it an original 21-Window? |
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Lind, you know a lot and I've taken your advice more than once, but w VW there is always an exception as I have found since 1976<my first Bus. Being a 64, it has many 62, 63, and later parts mixed into the bunch to make my baby. On my 66 I can count-on parts being correct, but this Sept 63/64 you never know. Door handles, spindles, mirrors, dash parts-even windows.
To return the many favors/advice, I pulled my seat off so you can add to the confusion and knowledge. ya just never know.
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Lind
Samba Member
Joined: November 06, 2000
Posts: 9915
Location: idaho
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| Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:08 pm Post subject: Re: M-code plate, is it an original 21-Window? |
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| NUTSFORBUSES wrote: |
Lind, you know a lot and I've taken your advice more than once, but w VW there is always an exception as I have found since 1976<my first Bus. Being a 64, it has many 62, 63, and later parts mixed into the bunch to make my baby. On my 66 I can count-on parts being correct, but this Sept 63/64 you never know. Door handles, spindles, mirrors, dash parts-even windows.
To return the many favors/advice, I pulled my seat off so you can add to the confusion and knowledge. ya just never know.
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More than 99% of the time, the plates are right and follow the known patterns. But there is always an exception. I love seeing the oddball stuff like this. This plate must have been stamped after a couple beers at lunch.
I saw a 1960 walkthrough bus that did not have the walkthrough M-code. The bus was unmolested, and it was certainly a factory walkthrough with all its original plates. I figure that they either forgot to put it on the M-code plate, or someone got a bonus.
It would be funny if your bus was supposed to be a 13 window with no step, and one mis-stamp got you eight windows and a side step. Have you ordered the birth certificate?
Those early '64 buses are so much like late '63s with a bigger hatch and no corner windows.
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