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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50351
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Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:54 pm Post subject: Re: Another stranded Vanagon -- Won't start |
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For some reason the spark is blasting into the sides of the distributor cap, makes me think that your timing could be very far off, or maybe someone came up with a way to install the distributor cap incorrectly. How did you get the cap off with the radiation shield still in place anyway?
When you first buy an ancient used car that someone else has been neglecting for years you need to replace the lubricants, a lot of tune up parts, and often most anything made of rubber. |
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vanaglobal Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2016 Posts: 50 Location: NYC
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Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 2:39 pm Post subject: Re: Another stranded Vanagon -- Won't start |
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So changed the distributor cap and rotor. Started right up! phew. So at thats a relief but still seems to idle a bit rough. Working on the fuel lines now.
I'm wondering if I should just buy new fuel injectors while im at it? The rubber seals are definitely cracked and need to be replaced. Do you guys have an upgrade you recommend?
Once this is sorted I'll get to seeing if I have water in the tank next. Or should I do this first?
After all this ill have to do the seals on the gas tank. I dont want to drop it but I see drops when I refill so it needs to be done.
And then all the grounds... _________________ 83.5 1.9l wasserboxer westfalia |
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djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32625 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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vanaglobal Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2016 Posts: 50 Location: NYC
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Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 3:14 pm Post subject: Re: Another stranded Vanagon -- Won't start |
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Just used the water finding goop from gas released from the ass end of the fuel filter. No color change. So I guess its safe to say no water in the tank!? _________________ 83.5 1.9l wasserboxer westfalia |
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vanaglobal Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2016 Posts: 50 Location: NYC
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Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 6:06 pm Post subject: Re: Another stranded Vanagon -- Won't start |
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djkeev wrote: |
If you have a week to ten days, send the injectors to mrinjector in idaho.
They come back looking and operating like new for about $100 a tad more with shipping.
Dave |
You think it’s worth the $200 saved money instead of buying new ones from Mansispeed that everyone is talking about? _________________ 83.5 1.9l wasserboxer westfalia |
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djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32625 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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vanaglobal Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2016 Posts: 50 Location: NYC
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Posted: Sat May 08, 2021 5:30 pm Post subject: Re: Another stranded Vanagon -- Won't start |
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4Gears4Tires wrote: |
How are your o2 sensor wires? I would check on them. There are 2 connections. |
Sooooo..... I have some udates...lol
Replaced rotor and distributor cap. Replaced fuel filter, air filter. Replaced all fuel lines. I even sent out my fuel injectors and had them cleaned.
So today I went and put the nicely cleaned fuel injectors back in, and then...
"wait... what's this..?" severed cable... where does this go....
O2 sensor! lol
So a week and a few hundred bucks later 4gears4tires comes in for the win.
So where are these wires supposed to go? Should I get a new O2 sensor or just repair the wire?
_________________ 83.5 1.9l wasserboxer westfalia
Last edited by vanaglobal on Sat May 08, 2021 6:26 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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dhaavers Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010 Posts: 7757 Location: NE MN (tinyurl.com/dhaaverslocation)
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Posted: Sat May 08, 2021 6:20 pm Post subject: Re: Another stranded Vanagon -- Won't start |
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I vote new. Your chances of successfully repairing the coax cable are slim,
and without a perfect repair, you're right back where you started... <shrug>
- Dave _________________ 86 White Wolfsburg Westy Weekender
"The WonderVan"
<EDITED TO PROTECT INNOCENT PIXELS> |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50351
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Posted: Sat May 08, 2021 6:49 pm Post subject: Re: Another stranded Vanagon -- Won't start |
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dhaavers wrote: |
I vote new. Your chances of successfully repairing the coax cable are slim,
and without a perfect repair, you're right back where you started... <shrug>
- Dave |
Don't think the broken part is a coax |
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jlrftype7 Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2018 Posts: 3582 Location: Chicago
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Posted: Sat May 08, 2021 7:54 pm Post subject: Re: Another stranded Vanagon -- Won't start |
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vanaglobal wrote: |
4Gears4Tires wrote: |
How are your o2 sensor wires? I would check on them. There are 2 connections. |
Sooooo..... I have some udates...lol
Replaced rotor and distributor cap. Replaced fuel filter, air filter. Replaced all fuel lines. I even sent out my fuel injectors and had them cleaned.
So today I went and put the nicely cleaned fuel injectors back in, and then...
"wait... what's this..?" severed cable... where does this go....
O2 sensor! lol
So a week and a few hundred bucks later 4gears4tires comes in for the win.
So where are these wires supposed to go? Should I get a new O2 sensor or just repair the wire?
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That’s the single wire of your O2 sensor that’s cut. You should be able to easily spot the mating connector with the other cut section of your sensor near the ignition coil area. ( look for a Green wire plugged into a black wire, with the black wire cut)
Get a new sensor, route it back up through the shield like yours is now with that grommet protecting it. Keep it away from the exhaust . Better quality new sensors will have that grommet already on the wire of the sensor for you to install in the shield hole.
Here’s a picture of the engine harness with that Green wire that connects to your O2 sensor from Samba Gallery.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/2072736.jpg _________________ '68 Westy- my first VW and vehicle/Bus- long gone.- sold it to a traveling Swiss couple....
'67 Type 3 Fastback, my 2nd car- gone
'69 Semi-Auto Stick Shift Beetle-gone
2017 MINI Coopers, our current DDs
‘84 Tin Top - Hilga....Auto |
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vanaglobal Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2016 Posts: 50 Location: NYC
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Posted: Tue May 11, 2021 11:07 am Post subject: Re: Another stranded Vanagon -- Won't start |
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Thanks for the info.
Attempted to replace the O2 sensor but it was seized in, so instead of messing with that I just bought some new wire and connected it to the old o2 sensor.
Everything seems fine until I shift into 4th gear. No power no stretch. 1st and 2nd feel and sounds great. 3rd seems a bit weak but once in 4th I get nothing even loss of power maybe.
Do you think it’s the o2 sensor?
The only other thing I could think of is when I plugged the fuel injectors in I didn’t remember which one went to which. Obviously I have the left and right correct but top and bottom might be mixed up. Could this be an issue?[/i] _________________ 83.5 1.9l wasserboxer westfalia |
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MarkWard Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005 Posts: 17153 Location: Retired South Florida
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Posted: Tue May 11, 2021 11:22 am Post subject: Re: Another stranded Vanagon -- Won't start |
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You can't mess up the injector plugs. They all spray at the same time. A proper tuned engine should not need an oxygen sensor connected. Leave it disconnected until you have the engine running properly on it's own. If you can't pull 4 th gear that sounds like a fuel volume problem or maybe front brakes that are dragging. _________________ ☮️ |
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vanaglobal Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2016 Posts: 50 Location: NYC
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Posted: Tue May 11, 2021 11:45 am Post subject: Re: Another stranded Vanagon -- Won't start |
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I just did another experiment. I unplugged one fuel injector at a time while idling. I get a dip in RPM except on one... I unplug and plug it back in but it seems to have no affect. I’m guessing it’s the wiring so I swap the plugs top and bottom. The same fuel injector seems to be unresponsive... so what does that mean? I just had all injectors tested and cleaned... _________________ 83.5 1.9l wasserboxer westfalia |
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VicVan Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2015 Posts: 1845 Location: Vancouver Island, BC
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Posted: Tue May 11, 2021 11:47 am Post subject: Re: Another stranded Vanagon -- Won't start |
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Is it running on three cylinders? Maybe the problem is not the injector but the spark. On the cylinder that you identified, remove the spark plug and check for spark. _________________ '90 Little Blue Truck, 2WD auto, FAS GenV 2.0 NA (AVH) |
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Ahwahnee Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2010 Posts: 9810 Location: Mt Lemmon, AZ
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Posted: Tue May 11, 2021 12:03 pm Post subject: Re: Another stranded Vanagon -- Won't start |
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VicVan wrote: |
Is it running on three cylinders? Maybe the problem is not the injector but the spark... |
Or compression. Good to check both. |
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Howesight Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2008 Posts: 3274 Location: Vancouver, B.C.
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Posted: Tue May 11, 2021 12:07 pm Post subject: Re: Another stranded Vanagon -- Won't start |
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The idle speed test is very useful. I think, as I try to interpret your comments, that the one cylinder for which idle speed did not drop, that you then swapped the injector wire from the neighbouring injector and that also failed to drop (or raise) the idle speed. Assuming that is correct, then the issue is likely no spark on that cylinder.
I suspect that your engine problem is unrelated to what gear you are in - - the higher gears just reveal the lower power from running on 3 out of 4 cylinders.
When changing your spark plugs, you should do a compression test and report you results here. Compression Test 101 is as follows:
1. Ensure your battery is fully charged;
2. Start engine and bring it to operating temperature and then shut engine off;
3. Remove all spark plugs and disconnect injector wires from the injectors;
4. Remove the centre wire from the rotor and connect it to ground, making sure it can't spark;
5. Connect compression tester to spark plug hole;
6. Have your helper floor the accelerator and crank the engine for the count of 3 or 4 Mississippis;
7. Check and record compression.
8. Repeat on the other three cylinders.
If you don't follow the above procedure, then your test will not yield a useful result for us to analyze. _________________ '86 Syncro Westy SVX |
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MarkWard Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005 Posts: 17153 Location: Retired South Florida
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Posted: Tue May 11, 2021 12:20 pm Post subject: Re: Another stranded Vanagon -- Won't start |
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If the hose is relatively new, you can also swap the injectors and see if the miss fire moves. I would not recommend that on old injector hoses. _________________ ☮️ |
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vanaglobal Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2016 Posts: 50 Location: NYC
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Posted: Tue May 11, 2021 5:29 pm Post subject: Re: Another stranded Vanagon -- Won't start |
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Howesight wrote: |
4. Remove the centre wire from the rotor and connect it to ground, making sure it can't spark;
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Thanks Howesight
I'll do that. Can you tell me how I connect the center wire of the rotor to ground? Sorry if this is a stupid question, but I don't quite understand.
I think you are right though. I'll check for spark first. _________________ 83.5 1.9l wasserboxer westfalia |
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4Gears4Tires Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2018 Posts: 3048 Location: MD
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Posted: Tue May 11, 2021 7:45 pm Post subject: Re: Another stranded Vanagon -- Won't start |
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He means the wire from the ignition coil to the distributor. You can use alligator clips or alternatively remove the power wires to the coil. I don't disagree with safety but that is certainly going above and beyond, just like opening the throttle all the way. I've never done either fwiw. The throttle body isn't sealed 100% tight, there will still be enough air going to the motor. _________________ '87 Syncro
Ferric Oxyhydroxide Superleggera Edition |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50351
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Posted: Tue May 11, 2021 7:57 pm Post subject: Re: Another stranded Vanagon -- Won't start |
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You can do a good enough compression test by just disabling the ignition by grounding coil wire and then cranking the engine leaving the spark plugs in place. If starter makes about the same amount of noise as each piston sweep past its respective TDC then the compression is going to be close to the same across the board, while if one or more cylinders don't load the starter as much they will have lower compression than the others. |
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