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Glenn 
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76940
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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 Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:44 pm Post subject: Engine for a 77 Bay from Germany. |
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Can this be the original engine?
CJ051525
It's a Type 4 with dual single barrel carbs.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50352
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| Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:47 pm Post subject: Re: Engine for a 77 Bay from Germany. |
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| If you are looking to import something, I would expect a German car engine to be a corroded mess. Some kind of military or industrial engine might be fine though. |
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51153
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 4:03 pm Post subject: Re: Engine for a 77 Bay from Germany. |
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| Glenn wrote: |
| Can this be the original engine? |
It's possible, the number is low for a 77, but are the charts based on model or production year? CJ is the dual carb 2 liter offered in non smog markets.
A German vehicle should have a log book noting things like engine swaps that transfers with ownership for life, unless it's gotten lost making it's way West.
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Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76940
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 5:28 pm Post subject: Re: Engine for a 77 Bay from Germany. |
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The bus is here and the owner says its the original one.
Just wanted to know if it's possible.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
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germansupplyscott
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Joined: May 22, 2004
Posts: 7094
Location: toronto
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| Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 7:02 pm Post subject: Re: Engine for a 77 Bay from Germany. |
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CJ has a closed off crankcase breather I think?
If so it's a Vanagon aircooled engine. Vanagon aircooled in DE had the dual carbs, similar to a Bus but some small differences.
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busdaddy
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Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51153
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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restocal63
Samba Member
Joined: November 05, 2006
Posts: 224
Location: Malta
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| Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 9:01 pm Post subject: Re: Engine for a 77 Bay from Germany. |
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Dear Gents,
Have a look at the fan housing to check if it plugged.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=1674637
I could be wrong but my bus is a euro spec and has no connections for the charcoal canister etc. and can confirm that the majority of the buses in europe even later vanagons still had twin carbs. |
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germansupplyscott
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Joined: May 22, 2004
Posts: 7094
Location: toronto
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| Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 7:21 am Post subject: Re: Engine for a 77 Bay from Germany. |
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Interesting. I thought all CJ have the sealed off breather, as well as several other details on the case that make them Vanagon specific. But could be wrong about that.
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rsbadura
Samba Member
Joined: November 30, 2009
Posts: 656
Location: Berlin, Germany
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| Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 12:32 am Post subject: Re: Engine for a 77 Bay from Germany. |
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| Glenn wrote: |
Can this be the original engine?
CJ051525
It's a Type 4 with dual single barrel carbs. |
Yes... this CJ051525 is build between January and August 1977.
Its the big type 4 engine in Europe for the bay window since August 1975 to end of bay window production in mid 1979.
While this time there are also some changes of the CJ - as the heat exchanger outputs and its mounting changed in August 78 to the end of production.
Its the successor of the AP (8.73-7.75) type 4 dual carbs engine used in Europe.
The photo of germansupplyscott is a vanagon engine!
The vanagons have different engines - successor in Europe of the CJ is there the CU with carbs (CV listed in the link above is the injection version for export e.g. to the USA) - mounting is different and a lot of other small differences... tin, carbs, exhaust, heating, ... you could modify a CU engine block to fit in a bay window, if you have all these parts around that fitting in bay.
My CJ a) naked, b) with tin and without carbs and c) mounted with carbs
and from the left side for restocal63:
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Rolf-Stephan Badura
1970 VW Karmann-Ghia Coupe
1979 VW Bus L to camper conversion
1982 Eriba Pan travel trailer
2017 VW CrossPolo
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NASkeet
Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2006
Posts: 2958
Location: South Benfleet, Essex, UK
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| Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 12:10 pm Post subject: Re: Engine for a 77 Bay from Germany. |
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People in North America forget that the specifications of the 1975 VW 1800 Type 2 & 1976~79 VW 2000 Type 2 engines were different for Europe and elsewhere; although Sweden and Australia seems to have used fuel injection for some of the 1976~79 VW 2000 Type 2 model-years!
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Regards.
Nigel A. Skeet
Independent tutor (semi-retired) of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.
Much modified, RHD 1973 VW "1600" Type 2 Westfalia Continental campervan, with the World's only decent, cross-over-arm, SWF pantograph rear-window wiper
Onetime member, plus former Technical Editor & Editor of Transporter Talk magazine
Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club (Great Britain)
http://www.vwt2oc.net |
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rsbadura
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Joined: November 30, 2009
Posts: 656
Location: Berlin, Germany
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Globespotter
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rsbadura
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Joined: November 30, 2009
Posts: 656
Location: Berlin, Germany
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| Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 1:07 am Post subject: Re: Engine for a 77 Bay from Germany. |
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You could see this car in the museum "Stiftung AutoMuseum Volkswagen" in Wolfsburg, Germany.
It's a 1972 T2a/b orange(roof)/red Bus with chrome bumpers, 1975 chrome trim, changed engine lid and inscription on the side "GASTURBINE (VW)" below "Testfahrzeug" (test vehicle).
It was a project prototype „GT 70" from VW and Williams Research Corp. (USA).
Top speed 80 mph, 55 kW/75 hp, could be used with gasoline, diesel, natural gas, synthesis gas, kerosene.
380 lb gas turbine unit in two-shaft design with integrated reduction gear. The automatic transmission came from the type 3 VW 1600 Variant (station wagon).
In addition to the multi-fuel capability, the advantages were overall parts reduction, less vibration, a high degree of efficiency and the compact design, while the disadvantages were high fuel consumption and the noise. So nothing useful in this period with the 1973 oil price crisis till today with environmental protection... I never made a photo of this car at all my visit (> 5) of the museum because of that  nice, but useless... (Chrysler tried this much longer without success for cars from 1954-1977 - some know how ended in the M1 tank development)
Some photos and text at this site:
https://www.hemmings.com/stories/2016/10/11/a-tour...volkswagen
or search for "VW T2 GASTURBINE"...
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Rolf-Stephan Badura
1970 VW Karmann-Ghia Coupe
1979 VW Bus L to camper conversion
1982 Eriba Pan travel trailer
2017 VW CrossPolo
HAZET classic tools |
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NASkeet
Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2006
Posts: 2958
Location: South Benfleet, Essex, UK
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| Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:17 am Post subject: Re: Engine for a 77 Bay from Germany. |
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| rsbadura wrote: |
and beside this keep in mind the small 1285 ccm and only 34 hp for some countries like Italy with high luxury taxes on bigger engines till mid 70s
or the engines for regions and countries with bad petrol with less Octan...
and engines for Automatic (special carburators setups)...
and a small series of electro car bay windows and a gas turbine prototye...
https://www.vw-t2-bulli.de/de-enginenumber.html |
The 1.3 litre, VW 1300 Type 1 engine for Italian specification VW Type 2 T2s, was something I learned about several years ago, but I have yet to learn what gear ratios and final-drive ratio was used with it!?!
| rsbadura wrote: |
You could see this car in the museum "Stiftung AutoMuseum Volkswagen" in Wolfsburg, Germany.
It's a 1972 T2a/b orange(roof)/red Bus with chrome bumpers, 1975 chrome trim, changed engine lid and inscription on the side "GASTURBINE (VW)" below "Testfahrzeug" (test vehicle).
It was a project prototype „GT 70" from VW and Williams Research Corp. (USA).
Top speed 80 mph, 55 kW/75 hp, could be used with gasoline, diesel, natural gas, synthesis gas, kerosene.
380 lb gas turbine unit in two-shaft design with integrated reduction gear. The automatic transmission came from the type 3 VW 1600 Variant (station wagon).
In addition to the multi-fuel capability, the advantages were overall parts reduction, less vibration, a high degree of efficiency and the compact design, while the disadvantages were high fuel consumption and the noise. So nothing useful in this period with the 1973 oil price crisis till today with environmental protection... I never made a photo of this car at all my visit (> 5) of the museum because of that nice, but useless... (Chrysler tried this much longer without success for cars from 1954-1977 - some know how ended in the M1 tank development)
Some photos and text at this site:
https://www.hemmings.com/stories/2016/10/11/a-tour...volkswagen
or search for "VW T2 GASTURBINE"... |
I think the gas turbine used in the M1 Abrams tank is a development of what was used in helicopters.
My friend who until recently worked in the R & D section of Rolls Royce aero engines in Derby, England might know more about them! 
_________________
Regards.
Nigel A. Skeet
Independent tutor (semi-retired) of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.
Much modified, RHD 1973 VW "1600" Type 2 Westfalia Continental campervan, with the World's only decent, cross-over-arm, SWF pantograph rear-window wiper
Onetime member, plus former Technical Editor & Editor of Transporter Talk magazine
Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club (Great Britain)
http://www.vwt2oc.net |
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Magion
Samba Member
Joined: February 15, 2016
Posts: 236
Location: Vancouver, BC
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| Posted: Sat May 01, 2021 7:47 am Post subject: Re: Engine for a 77 Bay from Germany. |
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| rsbadura wrote: |
You could see this car in the museum "Stiftung AutoMuseum Volkswagen" in Wolfsburg, Germany.
It's a 1972 T2a/b orange(roof)/red Bus with chrome bumpers, 1975 chrome trim, changed engine lid and inscription on the side "GASTURBINE (VW)" below "Testfahrzeug" (test vehicle).
It was a project prototype „GT 70" from VW and Williams Research Corp. (USA).
Top speed 80 mph, 55 kW/75 hp, could be used with gasoline, diesel, natural gas, synthesis gas, kerosene.
380 lb gas turbine unit in two-shaft design with integrated reduction gear. The automatic transmission came from the type 3 VW 1600 Variant (station wagon).
In addition to the multi-fuel capability, the advantages were overall parts reduction, less vibration, a high degree of efficiency and the compact design, while the disadvantages were high fuel consumption and the noise. So nothing useful in this period with the 1973 oil price crisis till today with environmental protection... I never made a photo of this car at all my visit (> 5) of the museum because of that nice, but useless... (Chrysler tried this much longer without success for cars from 1954-1977 - some know how ended in the M1 tank development)
Some photos and text at this site:
https://www.hemmings.com/stories/2016/10/11/a-tour...volkswagen
or search for "VW T2 GASTURBINE"... |
I did! Unfortunately this is the only one I have
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1975 Westfalia in Brilliant Orange
1995 Westfalia in Caribbean Green |
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NASkeet
Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2006
Posts: 2958
Location: South Benfleet, Essex, UK
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| Posted: Sun May 02, 2021 8:48 am Post subject: Re: Engine for a 77 Bay from Germany. |
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It's interesting to note at the following link, the picture of the reconditioned VW 2000 Type 2 engine CJ023387X, with the X being indicative of it being a Volkswagen-factory reconditioned engine.
https://www.vw-t2-bulli.de/de-enginenumber.html
Back in 1991, my father and I bought a second-hand 1974 VW 1800 Type 2 panel van, with an AP-Series engine having twin Solex carburettors, whose engine number ended with an X. Strangely, it had two different types of VW 1800 Type 4 style cylinder heads; one with 39.3 mm inlet & 33 mm exhaust valves and M10 x 1.0 mm thread hole for intended for a fuel-injection associated CHT sensor, and the other with 41 mm inlet & 34 mm exhaust valves.
_________________
Regards.
Nigel A. Skeet
Independent tutor (semi-retired) of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.
Much modified, RHD 1973 VW "1600" Type 2 Westfalia Continental campervan, with the World's only decent, cross-over-arm, SWF pantograph rear-window wiper
Onetime member, plus former Technical Editor & Editor of Transporter Talk magazine
Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club (Great Britain)
http://www.vwt2oc.net |
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