| Author |
Message |
iamnotatwork
Samba Member
Joined: August 21, 2018
Posts: 162
Location: Oak Harbor, WA
|
 Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 9:49 am Post subject: 69 wiring diagram - 67+ isn't correct |
 |
|
I bought a new wiring harness from ispwest but the included diagram is not correct for 69... Has anyone drawn a new diagram? I checked the tech area but didn't see...
Thanks!
_________________
1967 Bug "Giblet"
1969 Squareback (undergoing restoration) "The Pickleback" |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
DQDan
Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2016
Posts: 351
Location: Cleveland OH
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
iamnotatwork
Samba Member
Joined: August 21, 2018
Posts: 162
Location: Oak Harbor, WA
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 10:57 am Post subject: Re: 69 wiring diagram - 67+ isn't correct |
|
|
The diagram "type3_6870" in that link seems to be incorrect for 68 and 69. I will check the Mitchell pages also included in that link; maybe those will be helpful.
Thanks!
_________________
1967 Bug "Giblet"
1969 Squareback (undergoing restoration) "The Pickleback" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
iamnotatwork
Samba Member
Joined: August 21, 2018
Posts: 162
Location: Oak Harbor, WA
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 12:41 pm Post subject: Re: 69 wiring diagram - 67+ isn't correct |
|
|
Lots of conflicting info there.
The wiring diagram that came with the loom from ISPWest is not correct for the wires received.
The color diagram in that link doesn't follow either...
The block diagram is good but lacks the pin assignments for the relays and such...
Anyone out there use one of the ISPWest looms for a 68-69 square?
_________________
1967 Bug "Giblet"
1969 Squareback (undergoing restoration) "The Pickleback" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Erik G
Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2002
Posts: 13269
Location: Tejas!
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 12:53 pm Post subject: Re: 69 wiring diagram - 67+ isn't correct |
|
|
| you keep saying not correct but not sharing any examples of why you consider it incorrect. please, by all means enlighten us... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
KTPhil 
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 33993
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 2:07 pm Post subject: Re: 69 wiring diagram - 67+ isn't correct |
|
|
I can't speak to the wiring itself, but based on the style of the front and rear running lamp lenses, that diagram is for 1970, not '68-70.
Strange that a VWOA diagram would be in error, but it is. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DQDan
Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2016
Posts: 351
Location: Cleveland OH
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 4:36 pm Post subject: Re: 69 wiring diagram - 67+ isn't correct |
|
|
| Phil, are you saying you think VW should redo a wiring diagram because the shape of a blinker housing changed? If the wiring did not change I can't see why they would bother. To me it looks like the shape of the 66 blinkers, not the 70 ones. But of course it is FI so it's not a 66. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
KTPhil
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 33993
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 4:59 pm Post subject: Re: 69 wiring diagram - 67+ isn't correct |
|
|
| DQDan wrote: |
| Phil, are you saying you think VW should redo a wiring diagram because the shape of a blinker housing changed? If the wiring did not change I can't see why they would bother. |
Those older-style wiring diagrams (pre-'73) not only show connections, but they also give a clue to the wire's physical location. This can be confusing if it doesn't match the car, as in this case.
The location of reverse lights, for example, is different. I expect there are other differences that are not quite so apparent... until that difference affects your car!
I know the dashboard grounds changed during that period, so tracing some unknown brown wire, or resolving a poor-ground issue, can be harder with the wrong diagram.
| DQDan wrote: |
| To me it looks like the shape of the 66 blinkers, not the 70 ones. |
Those lenses have the small separate bulb that started in '70 (USA models). Some earlier models had "wraparound" lenses but they didn't use the separate small bulb, as shown here:
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ataraxia
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 4504
Location: Illinois
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 5:09 pm Post subject: Re: 69 wiring diagram - 67+ isn't correct |
|
|
| DQDan wrote: |
| Phil, are you saying you think VW should redo a wiring diagram because the shape of a blinker housing changed? If the wiring did not change I can't see why they would bother. To me it looks like the shape of the 66 blinkers, not the 70 ones. But of course it is FI so it's not a 66. |
The wiring diagram is not correct for a 68 or a 69. The front turn indicators in a 68 and 69 (in the US) has one bulb in it - not two as shown on the diagram. It's not 'just the shape' - they're showing the 70+ front indicator housing and the 70+ rear tail lamp housing which has the reverse lights integrated into the housing vs. two separate lights mounted to the rear bumper.
If you can't tell the difference - look at an earlier wiring diagram - the early front indicator housings have one bulb, not two.
That's only three examples of why this diagram is incorrect - there are many more if you know what to look for... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22407
Location: Kimball, Mi
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2021 10:36 am Post subject: Re: 69 wiring diagram - 67+ isn't correct |
|
|
According to Tram, the ISP main wiring harness is close enough to being correct. I'll trust Tram on that one, as I haven't used an ISP harness yet.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Erik G
Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2002
Posts: 13269
Location: Tejas!
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2021 10:53 am Post subject: Re: 69 wiring diagram - 67+ isn't correct |
|
|
| KTPhil wrote: |
I can't speak to the wiring itself, but based on the style of the front and rear running lamp lenses, that diagram is for 1970, not '68-70.
. |
yep, as soon as you posed that I looked and son of a bitch it's not quite correct. but fairly close...
OP what exactly do you have questions on, we can help you out |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
iamnotatwork
Samba Member
Joined: August 21, 2018
Posts: 162
Location: Oak Harbor, WA
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2021 3:43 pm Post subject: Re: 69 wiring diagram - 67+ isn't correct |
|
|
I am putting together a list of discrepancies in the diagrams. Will be back soon.
Thanks all
_________________
1967 Bug "Giblet"
1969 Squareback (undergoing restoration) "The Pickleback" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
iamnotatwork
Samba Member
Joined: August 21, 2018
Posts: 162
Location: Oak Harbor, WA
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 12:23 pm Post subject: Re: 69 wiring diagram - 67+ isn't correct |
|
|
A few examples...
Here are the different wiring diagrams:
In this ISP West diagram, how do I get power to the door switch when both are brown grounds? Also, the dome light red power seems to disappear within the loom (according to this diagram).
Here, what are the pinouts?
Who here has used an ISP loom with a 68 or 69 restoration? What schematic did you use? There are many more discrepancies...
_________________
1967 Bug "Giblet"
1969 Squareback (undergoing restoration) "The Pickleback" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
KTPhil
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 33993
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 1:46 pm Post subject: Re: 69 wiring diagram - 67+ isn't correct |
|
|
| iamnotatwork wrote: |
A few examples...
Here are the different wiring diagrams:
In this ISP West diagram, how do I get power to the door switch when both are brown grounds? Also, the dome light red power seems to disappear within the loom (according to this diagram).
Here, what are the pinouts?
Who here has used an ISP loom with a 68 or 69 restoration? What schematic did you use? There are many more discrepancies... |
The door switches do not carry "power" (positive voltage). They make the lamp work by providing ground. The switch is grounded, and when the door opens, that brown wire is connected to ground. They are brown because of this, by convention. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
iamnotatwork
Samba Member
Joined: August 21, 2018
Posts: 162
Location: Oak Harbor, WA
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 2:46 pm Post subject: Re: 69 wiring diagram - 67+ isn't correct |
|
|
I understand that they are just an interrupt but I don't get where power is coming from...
| KTPhil wrote: |
The door switches do not carry "power" (positive voltage). They make the lamp work by providing ground. The switch is grounded, and when the door opens, that brown wire is connected to ground. They are brown because of this, by convention. |
_________________
1967 Bug "Giblet"
1969 Squareback (undergoing restoration) "The Pickleback" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22407
Location: Kimball, Mi
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 2:58 pm Post subject: Re: 69 wiring diagram - 67+ isn't correct |
|
|
| iamnotatwork wrote: |
I understand that they are just an interrupt but I don't get where power is coming from...
| KTPhil wrote: |
The door switches do not carry "power" (positive voltage). They make the lamp work by providing ground. The switch is grounded, and when the door opens, that brown wire is connected to ground. They are brown because of this, by convention. |
|
Power for the dome light comes from the red wire (from the fuse box) that runs up the "A" post to the light. Yes, the switch is just interrupting ground.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
iamnotatwork
Samba Member
Joined: August 21, 2018
Posts: 162
Location: Oak Harbor, WA
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 3:09 pm Post subject: Re: 69 wiring diagram - 67+ isn't correct |
|
|
We can figure out the stupid light... we are really struggling with the entire schematic under the dash.
Of the schematics out there, which do you guys use to wire up a 69? Of the schematics posted, the physical wiring does not match parts of the schematics because it shows 1970 - not a 68-69 proper.
How about that emergency flasher relay? Does anyone know the pins? The schematic that shows the actual pins numbers is for a 70 so the wires differ... That problem exists with all the relays and switches.
As far as I can tell, there is no 68-69 schematic... I have 68, 69, 70, 71, and 72 cars here. The 68-69's are different from the 70-72.
I appreciate the help!
_________________
1967 Bug "Giblet"
1969 Squareback (undergoing restoration) "The Pickleback" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22407
Location: Kimball, Mi
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 3:16 pm Post subject: Re: 69 wiring diagram - 67+ isn't correct |
|
|
The big problem with the 4 way flasher, is that there's 2 types to work from. Simple switch, complex relay. And complex switch, simple relay. Do a search of the forum, as it's been broken down for ease of use.
Just to throw a monkey wrench into things, my 65 Notch has a 71 wiring harness in it, and is wired up like a 70/71.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
iamnotatwork
Samba Member
Joined: August 21, 2018
Posts: 162
Location: Oak Harbor, WA
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 3:19 pm Post subject: Re: 69 wiring diagram - 67+ isn't correct |
|
|
I did not know this - thank you very much Bob!
_________________
1967 Bug "Giblet"
1969 Squareback (undergoing restoration) "The Pickleback" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
KTPhil
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 33993
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 3:34 pm Post subject: Re: 69 wiring diagram - 67+ isn't correct |
|
|
This is from Autobook's Type 3 Owners Workshop Manual. Not color, and it's for European models (might be more confusing due to USA differences), but it is listed as applicable to the '69 model year.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
