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82 Aircooled With Some Odd Problems
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GhostlyHalo
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 12:32 am    Post subject: 82 Aircooled With Some Odd Problems Reply with quote

Iíve run into an issue that just doesnít make sense. Well, 3 issues combined to be honest.
First 2 problems are that I have low compression on two cylinders. Compression readings are:
1: 65-70 psi
2: 135 psi
3: 130-135 psi
4: 90 psi
Adjusted valves on both low cylinders with less pre load than before to see if maybe the valves were just open too long. 1 full turn of pre load now.
Let the van idle for 30 minutes to fill lifters with oil. Removed plugs, rechecked compression. Same exact compression. No change whatsoever. Put a couple drops of oil in cyl 1 to see if that helps, no change. What could this be? Why wouldnít it change when I adjusted valves?

3rd problem is the cyl 3 seems to not be receiving spark. Something sounded a bit off, so I was checking spark. Pulling wires effected idle for 1,2, and 4, but didnít change anything for 3. Brand new wires and new plugs. When I pulled plug for compression test, 1,2, and 4 all look normally slightly discolored. Number 3 looked to be fresh out of the box. Will check spark on plug tomorrow.

The great conundrum is this:
How is it that this engine has 2 cylinders with low compression, one cylinder not receiving spark, and one cylinder functioning properly, but still running?

Does anyone have any other ideas on what may be going on?
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djkeev Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 2:01 am    Post subject: Re: 82 Aircooled With Some Odd Problems Reply with quote

Low compression doesn't mean no compression,

The cylinder will fire provided it has spark and fuel.

It is highly likely you do not have fuel to the dead cylinder.

An easy test is to swap the injector with another cylinder. Does the dead cylinder change with the injector swap?

Dave
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MarkWard
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 7:20 am    Post subject: Re: 82 Aircooled With Some Odd Problems Reply with quote

New parts can be defective. You can check a plug wire with an ohm meter. Swapping spark plugs, swapping injector leads can sometimes help pinpoint a flat miss. If you can get the miss to move.

A cylinder leak down test will tell you why your low pressure cylinders arenít sealing.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 7:43 am    Post subject: Re: 82 Aircooled With Some Odd Problems Reply with quote

You could have a burned valve or eroded valve for those cyls. that didnít respond to a bit of oil being added on the 2nd go around with compression testing.
Valve clearance can be set to spec, but your actual sealing is not happening due to issue between valve and itsí seat.
As Mark noted, next step is renting or borrowing a Leak Down Tester. Do you have access to compressed air or compressor. A small unit is all thatís needed since you are only filling the tiny combustion chamber on your engine.
With the valves closed on the cylinder youíre testing, you fill the cyl. with compressed air via removed spark plug hole, adjust the gauges and follow the tester instructions , and listen for air escaping if the leak rate is high on your gauges.
Intake valve leaking will hiss air out of your intake manifold/throttle.
Exhaust will be heard out of the tailpipe.
A piston ring leak can be heard through the engine with removal of the oil filler cap.
You can leak through both a valve(s) and worn cyl/rings at the same time on an older engine. Broken rings are also possible .
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GhostlyHalo
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 8:42 am    Post subject: Re: 82 Aircooled With Some Odd Problems Reply with quote

I understand that it will still fire, but wonít it sound very weak at idle? Wonít it be rather rough with 2 cyl low compression and something TBD happening in a 3rd cyl? Just my thought.

Plan today was to check wire and change plug out. So that will surely be done. I will also switch injector with another cylinder and see how it runs then.

And from the sound of it, a leak down test is my next course of action after all that. When I get that done, I will report back with my findings! Thank you for the run down of how to use and assess findings from it.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 9:36 am    Post subject: Re: 82 Aircooled With Some Odd Problems Reply with quote

If switching an injector makes no difference try then switching the injector harness plugs. The wiring could be bad thus not sending a signal to the injector.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 10:18 am    Post subject: Re: 82 Aircooled With Some Odd Problems Reply with quote

Also test series resistance (24.6 in Bentley).
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GhostlyHalo
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 1:31 pm    Post subject: Re: 82 Aircooled With Some Odd Problems Reply with quote

Harness is brand new from kyle automotive, but will check it out if switching injectors doesnít do anything. As previously mentioned, canít rule out something just because itís new.

Will check series resistance too!

Got a full rest of the day with the van ahead of me! Should be a grand ole time!Smile
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 2:38 pm    Post subject: Re: 82 Aircooled With Some Odd Problems Reply with quote

An update so far

Whipped out the multimeter to test a few things before swapping spark plug for a different one or swapping injectors.

Series resistance:
6.0 both sides (5.5-6.5 Bentley 24.6)

Fuel injector resistance:
(between 2-3 ohms)
1 : good
2 : good
3 : good
4 : good

Ignition wires:
(1000 ohms +/- 200)
1 : 2000 ohms
2 : 0 ohms
3 : 2000 ohms
4 : 2000 ohms

Cyl 2 is where I thought I had no issues. Looks like something is up with that wire though.

On to continue the rest of the hunt.

I also bought an air compressor and leak down test kit to check this all out. Should be getting to that this evening. Allowing time to be sure Iím doing this right before I give it a go.

Edit: spark plug changed to a known working plug. No difference. Changing injector now.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 7:57 pm    Post subject: Re: 82 Aircooled With Some Odd Problems Reply with quote

GhostlyHalo wrote:
An update so far

Whipped out the multimeter to test a few things before swapping spark plug for a different one or swapping injectors.

Series resistance:
6.0 both sides (5.5-6.5 Bentley 24.6)

Fuel injector resistance:
(between 2-3 ohms)
1 : good
2 : good
3 : good
4 : good

Ignition wires:
(1000 ohms +/- 200)
1 : 2000 ohms
2 : 0 ohms
3 : 2000 ohms
4 : 2000 ohms

Cyl 2 is where I thought I had no issues. Looks like something is up with that wire though.

On to continue the rest of the hunt.

I also bought an air compressor and leak down test kit to check this all out. Should be getting to that this evening. Allowing time to be sure Iím doing this right before I give it a go.

Edit: spark plug changed to a known working plug. No difference. Changing injector now.

Thanks for the update- Cool
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GhostlyHalo
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 8:26 pm    Post subject: Re: 82 Aircooled With Some Odd Problems Reply with quote

So swapping the injectors made a huge difference. Good injector on good cyl now and faulty injector on low compression cyl. Ran MUCH better that way. Gonna order injectors tonight. Any suggestions on brand? Or should I have mine rebuilt by fuel injection Corp? My problem one is a little burnt from a fire the previous owner had. Donít know if they will rebuild that one.

Didnít have time to do leak down test today, but Iím happy with the progress I did make. Iíll do the leak down sometime this week.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 3:49 am    Post subject: Re: 82 Aircooled With Some Odd Problems Reply with quote

Good work so far!

I am a believer that the quality of most new parts falls far short of the originals.

I send injectors to MrInjector out in Idaho.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=630758&highlight=me+injector

Takes a week to ten days, costs about $100 and they cone back like new. But a fire damaged one may be dead.
Buy an original used one and send that with the other three of yours,

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1955205

Dave
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GhostlyHalo
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 11:42 am    Post subject: Re: 82 Aircooled With Some Odd Problems Reply with quote

djkeev wrote:
Good work so far!

I am a believer that the quality of most new parts falls far short of the originals.

I send injectors to MrInjector out in Idaho.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=630758&highlight=me+injector

Takes a week to ten days, costs about $100 and they cone back like new. But a fire damaged one may be dead.
Buy an original used one and send that with the other three of yours,

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1955205

Dave

Thank you!

Thatís exactly the type of thing I was looking for! Thanks! Iíll be sending them off to mr injector!
Only the blue part is a little crispy, but resistance was still dead accurate. If resistance was off, then it would definitely be a no brained for me! Think itís still better to replace it to be on the safe side?
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 11:51 am    Post subject: Re: 82 Aircooled With Some Odd Problems Reply with quote

Youíd want to change injectors in sets. They need to be equal in flow and characteristics.
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GhostlyHalo
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 12:08 pm    Post subject: Re: 82 Aircooled With Some Odd Problems Reply with quote

MarkWard wrote:
Youíd want to change injectors in sets. They need to be equal in flow and characteristics.


A little confused by this. Are you saying to buy 2? And send those in with 2 of mine? Instead of just sending 3 of mine with 1 that I buy used?
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 1:34 pm    Post subject: Re: 82 Aircooled With Some Odd Problems Reply with quote

Send the four you have. He will test initially.
He will then clean retest and make sure they are all good as a set.

If something is amiss, he will let you know.

Honest outfit.
IdahoDoug keeps an eye on them ..... Laughing Laughing Laughing

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 1:42 pm    Post subject: Re: 82 Aircooled With Some Odd Problems Reply with quote

djkeev wrote:
Send the four you have. He will test initially.
He will then clean retest and make sure they are all good as a set.

If something is amiss, he will let you know.

Honest outfit.
IdahoDoug keeps an eye on them ..... Laughing Laughing Laughing

Dave


Works for me! Thank you.

Now the choice is, do I send them off next week after I run my leak down test? Since I will need to warm up the engine before testing. Or should I just send them off tomorrow and do leak down when they get back? I guess either works huh?
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 3:15 pm    Post subject: Re: 82 Aircooled With Some Odd Problems Reply with quote

I wouldn't bother trying to run the engine any more. Gas will soak down the rings if it's not atomizing properly. It can also overheat a cylinder if it's not spraying enough.

Set of 4 if you purchase new ones. Send 4 to have yours renovated.

If you need to rebuild the engine for a compression issue, you'd be doing the injectors anyhow. Might as well get that out of the way. Also make sure your tank is clean. Remove the fuel filter and see what is in it. You don't want to be running water into your renovated injectors.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 6:08 pm    Post subject: Re: 82 Aircooled With Some Odd Problems Reply with quote

MarkWard wrote:
I wouldn't bother trying to run the engine any more. Gas will soak down the rings if it's not atomizing properly. It can also overheat a cylinder if it's not spraying enough.

Set of 4 if you purchase new ones. Send 4 to have yours renovated.

If you need to rebuild the engine for a compression issue, you'd be doing the injectors anyhow. Might as well get that out of the way. Also make sure your tank is clean. Remove the fuel filter and see what is in it. You don't want to be running water into your renovated injectors.

Will do! Thanks for the input!

Fuel filter is new. I changed it right after I bought the van. And I drove 400+ miles to get it home, so any bad gas in the tank was more than likely gone before I changed filter.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 9:41 pm    Post subject: Re: 82 Aircooled With Some Odd Problems Reply with quote

Whatever you do, don't buy ebay injectors. They aren't the right size and they come pre corroded! What a waste of money! They are too short and will wobble around, not making a great seal and potentially leaking gas out and setting your van on fire. I cut the old rubber bushings in half to create 1 1/2 rubber bushing space and now they fit tight, but I don't trust them now. What are the chances the fuel flow rate is correct? Confused

I am sending my old injectors off and will be throwing these in the garbage when my originals are back.

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