Rear wheel bearings keep going bad??!!

[Wulfthang]

I installed new wheels bearings,axles, disc hubs and spacers when I put my rail together. The left one came apart after less than 200 miles. I put new bearings in again after cleaning out everything. About a 150 miles later, it came apart again. This time, it destroyed the axle and the hub. I installed new bearings, new spacers, a new axle and a new hub/disc, etc. all brand new.

That was the third set of bearings and the second set of spacers. Everything was clean and good quality grease was used. The right side has been absolutely trouble free. I used to be a pro mechanic for Kawasaki Motorcycles, building engines and tranys for the Kawasaki race teams. I'm not a rooky mechanic. I understand how stuff works and what makes it break. I do not understand why this is breaking over and over again.

Now it's bad again. I think the axle and disc hub are destroyed again too. This will be the 4th time for the bearings and the second new axle/hub. (Besides the original brand new one!!) It has less than 1000 miles on it total. One set of bearings were West German, the others ??.

The only parts not new, were the trailing arms. I bought them used and don't know the history. They appear to be stock VW with the reinforcing plates welded on top and bottom. They also have the old school extra heavy duty plate wrapped around around the bearing housing top, bottom and sides. They both bolted up fine and are not showing any Camber.

I do not understand why it keeps going bad! I have used all new parts every time. Yeah, I verified the assembly several times here and other places. It's correct. But something is wrong. I'm starting to wonder if the spacing on the trailing arm...from one side of the bearing housing to the other side...is wrong. The bearings did seem to slide in pretty easily so I dimpled the inner surface to help hold them tight. Does anybody have any ideas? Has anybody ever seen anything like this? Thanks.

[Vanapplebomb]

What do you mean “came apart?” How are they failing?

The ball bearings, roller bearings, or both?

Something is definitely not right...

Since this is the off road forum... are you pounding the crap out of them with severe off road abuse?

There is no reason a new bearing (even Chinese) shouldn’t provide years of trouble free service unless you are really thrashing it.
_________________
1800 Type 4 Berrien 295

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=487021

[74 Thing]

Possibly the trailing arm, spacers, not the right torque on the axle nut.

[Wulfthang]

[74 Thing]

What did you torque the axle nut to?

You may need the chromoly IRS spacers if your spacers are worn or have grooves in them if the drum/rotor was loose
http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Chromoly-Axle-Spacers...rs-irs.htm

If the bearings are not a nice tight fit into the axle housing then that can be a problem and also if it is bent.

[oprn]

I had the rear wheel bearing go bad on my 944 (same trailing arms as the Beetle) and had it replaced by a local shop as I don't have a press. Then about 3000 miles later it went again. No idea why and they replaced it free of charge. So far so good.

Just a faulty bearing? Or did a race get chipped pressing it in?
_________________
We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age)

[Matt Wilson]

I imagine it would be very apparent, but are you missing any of the spacers, or have them in the wrong configuration?
_________________
1972 Standard Beetle
1969 Baja Beetle

[Wulfthang]

Ok I took it apart this morning and cleaned everything up in the solvent tank. The axle and hub appear fine and I'll use them again. I dinged the inner bearing with the bearing driver popping it out so I don't know if it's was bad or not. I think it was ok. I did a "shake, rattle and roll" on the axle before pulling it out and the inner side did not seem to move at all.

On the other hand! The outer bearing had a lot of slop in it even though it appeared to be fine. I cleaned it and inspected it and it looked perfect! No glitches in spinning, no galling that I can, etc. However, it's loose...like really loose. It's a FAG bearing so it should have lasted longer than 200 miles. It was so loose that I could move the wheel over an inch back and forth.

I dimpled the bearing pockets some more and have brand new West German parts to install. I'll get it assembled this afternoon and will do some serious checking for slop. We shall see!

One thing: The roller bearing...the one with the cylinders instead of balls goes on the outside, right? I know it does but I just want to make sure!

[Dark Earth]

Here's how I did mine ...

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...;start=155
_________________
My Build: '69 Baja - Dark Earth Version

~I'm almost done. I just lack finishing up.~

[74 Thing]

That outer bearing should be a tight fit in the housing. Dimple the housing with a punch.

Also, pay attention to the spacers. The outer one should have the bevel facing the bearing as in the photos. You should have three spacers as in the link provided and there should be no grooves or wear marks where they touch each other or the brake drum. Especially pay attention to the outer spacer where it touches the drum. Make sure your torque is 250ft lbs.

You indicated that you are not using a drum but instead have rear discs and that there is play. Is there an additional spacer needed for your disc brakes-just throwing out ideas.

Photos would be really helpful.

[Vanapplebomb]

74 Thing brings up a good point. A lot of disk brake rotors are universal, meaning they fit earlier short spline swing axles and can also be used with later long spline swing axles and CV stub axles, provided you use a spacer to properly clamp the disk. It does no good to torque the nut down on the bottom of the threads, and not clamp the disk. It may look like it is seated on the disk, but could have next to no clamp load with the nut torqued.

As mentioned, 250 Ft*Lbs for long spline axles with flanged nuts, plus whatever it takes to get to the next cotter pin hole. So be prepared to crank on it. I have measured as high as 350 Ft*Lbs by the time the next cotter pin hole lines up, so use a VW torque buddy tool, or a 3/4 drive bar. Anything more than 250 on a 1/2 drive is pushing it. I have broken the square end of 1/2 drive stuff.
_________________
1800 Type 4 Berrien 295

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=487021

[Vanapplebomb]

So, back to the bearings...

You said the rollers fell out of the roller bearing... so the roller cage broke? Steel or nylon? Any automotive axle bearing worth $0.02 should have a steel cage. But, I have seen nylon caged bearings passed off as axle bearings in the past...and they are not long for this world supporting the weight of a car.

The bearing to arm fit should be a light press fit, but it shouldn’t kill anything to have it a thou or two loose. You can carefully peen it like you did, or clean the housing really well and use an anaerobic bearing retainer when installing the bearings.

The design on the bearings is surprisingly tolerant of slight misalignments. If you are off more than a couple thou, you will feel it when spinning the stub axle in the bearings. I would assemble everything dry with NO SEALS. You don’t need to fully torque for this test, just snug it up. Then spin the assembly in the bearings... it should spin freely with zero hiccups or rough spots anywhere. If it does, alignment is probably beyond use. If it passes this test, it must be assembly related.

Did you clean your bearings prior to packing them with grease?

So, how was your stub axle damaged? Bent? Gouged? If so, what chewed it up? Did the inner race of the bearing crack? Too much axle nut torque? Impact wrench? etc...

This really sounds like an assembly issue if you went through four wheel bearings so fast.

Walk us through exactly what you did, step by step. Maybe someone will spot something you overlooked.
_________________
1800 Type 4 Berrien 295

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=487021

[Wulfthang]

[Dark Earth]

[74 Thing]

I have seen some funky aftermarket axle nuts as well. It is all pointing to something loosening up.

If you have to go in there again (hopefully not), snap some photos and post them. Sometimes a second or third pair of eyes catches things you may have overlooked.

[earthquake]

What kind of stub axles are you using? Thing or 924/944 or imports? maybe the stubs axles are not to spec.

eQ
_________________
74 CLASS 11 LOOK-A-LIKE
69 DUNE BUGGY
79 INTERNATIONAL SCOUT II
05 SCION XB SERIES RELEASE 2[#437]
95 Chevy C3500 dually
98 Ford E150
Link to Kelly J. Nolte 3/20/53 - 11/6/08
https://time-zonelabs.blogspot.com/p/about-kelly.html
DEATH TO CHINGERS!
[From a military recruitment poster in the novel "The Stainless Steel Rat" By Harry Harrison]

[Vanapplebomb]

[Vanapplebomb]

[Wulfthang]

Vanapplebomb: Truthfully, the first time it broke, I may have gotten the bearings backwards. (Ball bearing on the outside) I say may because I did not look at them as I was taking it apart. But I suspected it when I looked at how the parts were laying there on the rag under the trailing arm. Probably my fault. The ball bearing looked like it was chewed on by a Metal Monster.

The second time it broke, the outer bearing was destroyed. The metal cage broke. However, the axle also stripped it's splines and ruined the hub too. I don't know which came first but I'm leaning towards the bearing disintegrating first because I stopped driving as soon as the splines broke!

This last time, (Yesterday) the inner bearing looked ok and didn't seem to have any slop but I didn't put a dial indicator on it.

The outer bearing...the roller bearing with cylinders inside looked perfectly fine. No damage anywhere that i could see. Shiny rollers, intact cage, no split races, nothing. However, it was sloppy.

The inner race seemed to be wobbly on the axle but no slop. It would wobble on the ends but was snug on the axle. The outer race was snug in the housing pocket. However, there was slop aka clearance between the inner and outer races, almost like the cylinder rollers were to small. No, the races were not split.

It wasn't much but of course, any is to much. It was enough so that when I grabbed the top of the tire and pushed it in and out, it moved an inch or more! The outer bearing ...the roller bearing...was a FAG bearing but not West German. (The latest new set is)

The axles were new when I first built the car and then this side was replaced with new again when the splines broke. I don't remember what shop I got them from but they were just standard VW Bug axles, probably Empi's. I am absolutely positive that it was assembled correctly each time except for maybe the first time.

This time I used West German bearings and seals. I'm going to wait on my new nuts before testing it out. Then I'm going to put about a thousand miles on it on the street before risking off road! At least on the road, I can call AAA.

Any ideas or suggestions? Maybe a Voodoo Priest to remove the curse? A Holy Water drip system? A Brenneke Magnum Crush 12 gauge slug?

Dark Earth: Thank you! I just ordered two of the Empi Chrome thicker nuts.

[74 Thing]

Empi and chrome is not wise.
Read about it here https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=670996&highlight=axle+nut
Get some quality axle nuts or used OE VW.