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rear heater delete question (vanaru conversion)
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physast
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 8:03 pm    Post subject: rear heater delete question (vanaru conversion) Reply with quote

OK. I tried to search and figure this out on my own, but I am still not 100% on the correct way to delete the rear heater core in my subaru conversion. I see threads mentioning issues that could arise from doing this. So to be on the safe side I thought I would ask here. The Subaru conversion was done by Vanaru around 2008 if that helps at all.

Is there any reason why using the gowesty style rear heater delete kit would not work? This would be replacing the Ts with Straights and eliminating the rear heater core.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 9:02 pm    Post subject: Re: rear heater delete question (vanaru conversion) Reply with quote

I can't think of a reason why having a Subaru conversion would affect anything with removing the rear heater.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 11:20 pm    Post subject: Re: rear heater delete question (vanaru conversion) Reply with quote

Some Subaru cooling configurations have the thermostat in the heater circuit, closing the valve to both heater cores would prevent the thermostat from opening, and you'll overheat. You'll need to know how your setup is plumbed before you could safely cap off the rear heater core.

Here's a good place to do some reading:

http://subaruvanagon.com/tom/Cooling%20System.htm
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skills@eurocarsplus
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 12:00 am    Post subject: Re: rear heater delete question (vanaru conversion) Reply with quote

subaru's must have a feedback loop for the tstat to work properly. if you're just getting rid of the rear heater core splice the lines together.

i have no idea how your cooling system is laid out, but if it's working good now just hook the lines together and you should be fine
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physast
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 5:54 am    Post subject: Re: rear heater delete question (vanaru conversion) Reply with quote

I will have to look at the setup and see if I can figure out the cooling design. I have never had an issue with the cooling system. I am doing a flush this year and that is why I'm thinking about removing the rear heater. I have owned the van for over 5 years and have never used the rear heater.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 7:01 am    Post subject: Re: rear heater delete question (vanaru conversion) Reply with quote

physast wrote:
I will have to look at the setup and see if I can figure out the cooling design. I have never had an issue with the cooling system. I am doing a flush this year and that is why I'm thinking about removing the rear heater. I have owned the van for over 5 years and have never used the rear heater.


It should do no harm to connect the two lines as skills suggested. (if you fear that it will take flow away from the front heat core you can insert something in the line to create a smaller orifice, say a 1/4" diameter hole.)

If you block the two lines and the coolant system is using the heater lines as feedback for the thermostat you have affected that system negatively, possibly higher coolant temps can result in certain situations.
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physast
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 7:28 am    Post subject: Re: rear heater delete question (vanaru conversion) Reply with quote

Quote:
If you block the two lines and the coolant system is using the heater lines as feedback for the thermostat you have affected that system negatively, possibly higher coolant temps can result in certain situations.


So in an effort to better understand the system I have a few questions.

1) in the original setup does the rear heater core create a shorter 'feedback' loop? If so then if the rear heater core valve is turned off and I have not had an issue would that be the same as capping the two lines off?

2) By removing the feedback loop like with the gowesty delete kit how does this negatively affect the system? Is it that hotter coolant is not fed back to the thermostat making the system?
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 7:42 am    Post subject: Re: rear heater delete question (vanaru conversion) Reply with quote

physast wrote:
Quote:
If you block the two lines and the coolant system is using the heater lines as feedback for the thermostat you have affected that system negatively, possibly higher coolant temps can result in certain situations.


So in an effort to better understand the system I have a few questions.

1) in the original setup does the rear heater core create a shorter 'feedback' loop? If so then if the rear heater core valve is turned off and I have not had an issue would that be the same as capping the two lines off?

2) By removing the feedback loop like with the gowesty delete kit how does this negatively affect the system? Is it that hotter coolant is not fed back to the thermostat making the system?


1) If you have turned off the valve at the rear heater then yes this is the same as capping the two lines. (I always leave the rear heater core valve open and use the fan to blow heat when I want it.)

2) This depends on how the coolant feedback to the thermostat is configured.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:28 am    Post subject: Re: rear heater delete question (vanaru conversion) Reply with quote

I doubt *very* much that the conversion relied on the rear heater core remaining open. Shame on anyone who did that!
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:40 am    Post subject: Re: rear heater delete question (vanaru conversion) Reply with quote

fxr wrote:
I doubt *very* much that the conversion relied on the rear heater core remaining open. Shame on anyone who did that!


AFAIK that is a very common convention among a bunch of conversions going back 15 years at least.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:48 am    Post subject: Re: rear heater delete question (vanaru conversion) Reply with quote

fxr wrote:
I doubt *very* much that the conversion relied on the rear heater core remaining open. Shame on anyone who did that!


but these are old vans whove passed through many hacky owners and shops... assume nothing! Razz
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:55 am    Post subject: Re: rear heater delete question (vanaru conversion) Reply with quote

With my TDI conversion, I have the rear heater hoses capped off. I've been driving it that way from day one.

The only thing I notice is that during the cold months, when I am using the front heater, the temp gauges for the engine go up only slightly. I have more than one gauge as well as the OE gauge in the Jetta Cluster.

Anyway, the rationale for the increased engine temp is as mentioned previously. The return coolant from the front heater is somewhat "cooler" which results in the T-stat staying closed or at least only opening slightly. There is return "hot" coolant from the oil cooler and the circulation through the expansion tank that tends to off-set the cooler coolant coming from the return from the front heater.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:40 am    Post subject: Re: rear heater delete question (vanaru conversion) Reply with quote

fxr wrote:
I doubt *very* much that the conversion relied on the rear heater core remaining open. Shame on anyone who did that!


You’d be surprised, the original Kennedy Engineering setup (and others) depends on the rear heater valve always being open.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:44 am    Post subject: Re: rear heater delete question (vanaru conversion) Reply with quote

Nothing like adding an extra load to the AC .......LOL
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:56 am    Post subject: Re: rear heater delete question (vanaru conversion) Reply with quote

valvecovergasket wrote:

but these are old vans whove passed through many hacky owners and shops... assume nothing! Razz


Isn’t that the truth! It’s almost a rite of passage to have to reverse engineer some wonky thing someone did in the past 4 decades on these vans.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:13 am    Post subject: Re: rear heater delete question (vanaru conversion) Reply with quote

Figured I’d ask here since it is a similar question and the answer might help the OP, too. I am deleting the rear heater, as well, in my 1990 2.1. The long hoses to and from the engine to the front heater are due to be replaced.

1. Any reason to NOT just run two long single hoses instead of splicing again at the place of the former (now deleted) t-split for the deleted rear heater core?

2. Also, what’re y’all’s recommendations on what kind of hoses I should use?
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:48 am    Post subject: Re: rear heater delete question (vanaru conversion) Reply with quote

It would be better to use 1 long hose, less joints, less failure points. Use coolant line that is the right diameter. You can get what your FLAPs has in stock or order fancier line.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:56 am    Post subject: Re: rear heater delete question (vanaru conversion) Reply with quote

4Gears4Tires wrote:
1 long hose, less joints, less failure points.


That's my math, too. 12 joints reduced to 4 joints.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 11:54 am    Post subject: Re: rear heater delete question (vanaru conversion) Reply with quote

Look for a hot coolant feedback loop to the heater return hose or a sandwich type adapter at the thermostat connected to hot coolant return or there may be an extra nipple on the thermostat housing acting as a hot return to the thermostat.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 1:17 pm    Post subject: Re: rear heater delete question (vanaru conversion) Reply with quote

wesitarz wrote:
Look for a hot coolant feedback loop to the heater return hose or a sandwich type adapter at the thermostat connected to hot coolant return or there may be an extra nipple on the thermostat housing acting as a hot return to the thermostat.


I am going to take a look tomorrow to see what I can find. I know the conversion was done by Hans at Vanaru in the early 2000's.
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