Author |
Message |
thebigben Samba Member
Joined: October 22, 2020 Posts: 94 Location: California
|
Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 8:46 pm Post subject: Red Fluid (ATF) Leak |
|
|
As I posted in another topic, I just got my van back after months of service. But I keep finding new things to worry about.
I had a coolant leak previously — the coolant overflow tank kept running dry — but tightening up hoses proximal to the leak seemed to have solved that for now.
But today, after parking for a few hours, I seem to have found something new to worry about. It looks like there’s ATF leaking from a small dimple and a good size wet spot underneath.
One, any guesses what’s going on? And how much faith should I still have in the shop they did the work if this happened a few days after getting a brand new transmission put in?
I’ve only owned this van for a few days, so please assume I have no idea what I’m talking about
_________________ Ben
'85 2WD Westy w/ Peloquin TBD + 2.2 Subi (Kurt Vannegut) |
|
Back to top |
|
|
4Gears4Tires Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2018 Posts: 3028 Location: MD
|
Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 8:49 pm Post subject: Re: Red Fluid 🩸 |
|
|
The oil isn't coming from that dimple. You can see in the first picture where it's dripping down from. That's a remove the trans and fix job. _________________ '87 Syncro
Ferric Oxyhydroxide Superleggera Edition
Last edited by 4Gears4Tires on Wed Apr 28, 2021 8:51 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top |
|
|
thebigben Samba Member
Joined: October 22, 2020 Posts: 94 Location: California
|
Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 8:51 pm Post subject: Re: Red Fluid 🩸 |
|
|
good eye, was looking at in the dark. 😀 _________________ Ben
'85 2WD Westy w/ Peloquin TBD + 2.2 Subi (Kurt Vannegut) |
|
Back to top |
|
|
4Gears4Tires Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2018 Posts: 3028 Location: MD
|
Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 8:53 pm Post subject: Re: Red Fluid 🩸 |
|
|
It might be your transmission output shaft seal or something along those lines. People more familiar with the autos will chime in.
My gf has nicknamed my Vanagon a similar nickname, Kurt Vanagon. Heh. Of course, I just call it "the van." _________________ '87 Syncro
Ferric Oxyhydroxide Superleggera Edition |
|
Back to top |
|
|
thebigben Samba Member
Joined: October 22, 2020 Posts: 94 Location: California
|
Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 9:27 pm Post subject: Re: Red Fluid 🩸 |
|
|
my favorite author I had 5 months to think of a name.
the shop is 3 hours away — I wonder if I could get some advice as to whether or not I should drive it, and whether or not the leak could have damaged the transmission. (Freshly rebuilt by GTA) _________________ Ben
'85 2WD Westy w/ Peloquin TBD + 2.2 Subi (Kurt Vannegut) |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22648 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
|
Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 3:29 am Post subject: Re: Red Fluid (ATF) Leak |
|
|
You can drive that , Ben.
Read the manual on the ATF level check procedure, top off before you leave, and check it midway after a bit of cool off. I’m guessing you will need less than a liter
Unlike an engine, when an ATF gets low on fluid, the transfer of torque is the first thing to get affected, so in a sense, it is damage limiting.
Drive it with awareness about the shifting , which is a good idea on any vehicle _________________ .ssS! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Steve M. Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2013 Posts: 6829 Location: Fort Lauderdale, Fl.
|
Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 4:55 am Post subject: Re: Red Fluid 🩸 |
|
|
thebigben wrote: |
my favorite author I had 5 months to think of a name.
the shop is 3 hours away — I wonder if I could get some advice as to whether or not I should drive it, and whether or not the leak could have damaged the transmission. (Freshly rebuilt by GTA) |
edit: I was thinking it was the oil pan seal, but looking again it is coming from above the oil pan. As been said maybe the shaft seal. _________________ This free advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.
There are seven days in a week. Someday is not one of them.
Last edited by Steve M. on Thu Apr 29, 2021 5:57 am; edited 2 times in total |
|
Back to top |
|
|
MarkWard Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005 Posts: 17120 Location: Retired South Florida
|
Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 5:48 am Post subject: Re: Red Fluid (ATF) Leak |
|
|
That transmission looks recently overhauled. You may want to look through the records for a overhaul. It may be under some warranty. You can drive it dripping forever if you keep the level full other than the mess. But yes, it likely is leaking between the auto section and the differential section. The bent pan happens. Next time the pan is off, it can be hammered out. You don't want the pan deflected enough that it blocks flow on the inlet of the pump. _________________ ☮️ |
|
Back to top |
|
|
4Gears4Tires Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2018 Posts: 3028 Location: MD
|
Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 6:34 am Post subject: Re: Red Fluid (ATF) Leak |
|
|
I thought the black part was the motor, I was too focused on the leak. It looks like it's leaking in between the two sections of the trans, from the shifting section to differential section.
I would suspect it's this outer ring gasket (near the bottom of the picture) since the leak looks like it goes up around for a bit.
_________________ '87 Syncro
Ferric Oxyhydroxide Superleggera Edition |
|
Back to top |
|
|
dobryan Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2006 Posts: 16503 Location: Brookeville, MD
|
Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 6:46 am Post subject: Re: Red Fluid (ATF) Leak |
|
|
IMO call the shop that did the install and ask them what to do. If it is under warranty you do not want a bunch of internet jockeys (us) telling you what is OK to do. You might accidentally (and with good intentions) do something that voids the warranty.
The leak likely is not the shops 'fault' if all they did was install a rebuilt transmission and it happens to have a bad seal. But they should honor a warranty claim most likely.
Let us know what happens. _________________ Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD
"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson
MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646
Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371
The Western Syncro build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
4Gears4Tires Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2018 Posts: 3028 Location: MD
|
Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 6:48 am Post subject: Re: Red Fluid (ATF) Leak |
|
|
^ 100%! _________________ '87 Syncro
Ferric Oxyhydroxide Superleggera Edition |
|
Back to top |
|
|
MarkWard Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005 Posts: 17120 Location: Retired South Florida
|
Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 7:06 am Post subject: Re: Red Fluid (ATF) Leak |
|
|
I do not know if rebuilders are still using them, but originally there were 2 paper gaskets on each side of the auto end plate that were also part of the sealing. It's also important to measure and shim between the differential and automatic sections. _________________ ☮️ |
|
Back to top |
|
|
SCM Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2011 Posts: 3115 Location: Bozeman MT
|
Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:58 am Post subject: Re: Red Fluid (ATF) Leak |
|
|
thebigben wrote: |
And how much faith should I still have in the shop they did the work if this happened a few days after getting a brand new transmission put in? |
As long as they're willing to stand behind their work and make it right, have plenty of faith.
My own GTA auto trans rebuild and install needed to go back to the installer to sort out some issues and it's all been great since then.
Similarly, back in January my 2018 Subaru Crosstrek needed to have the engine rebuilt with only 15k miles on it (!!!!!). After 2k miles on the rebuild (yesterday) it had to go back to get the oil pan resealed because it was leaking.
Stuff happens and if you can't fix it yourself you don't really know how hard it can be to get right the first time. _________________ '91 Westfalia GL Automatic (GTA "Turbo" Rebuild w/Peloquin) and 2.3L GoWesty Engine |
|
Back to top |
|
|
thebigben Samba Member
Joined: October 22, 2020 Posts: 94 Location: California
|
Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 12:20 pm Post subject: Re: Red Fluid (ATF) Leak |
|
|
thanks for all the responses. talked to the shop and it'll be headed back there soon (but they said it'll be okay to drive if I keep topping it off) _________________ Ben
'85 2WD Westy w/ Peloquin TBD + 2.2 Subi (Kurt Vannegut) |
|
Back to top |
|
|
jlrftype7 Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2018 Posts: 3577 Location: Chicago
|
Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:19 pm Post subject: Re: Red Fluid (ATF) Leak |
|
|
I seem to remember others having o-ring leakage issues at that one o-ring after rebuilds.
Wasn’t there a post about a GTA trans leaking there, and GTA felt they had a bad batch of O-Rings? _________________ '68 Westy- my first VW and vehicle/Bus- long gone.- sold it to a traveling Swiss couple....
'67 Type 3 Fastback, my 2nd car- gone
'69 Semi-Auto Stick Shift Beetle-gone
2017 MINI Coopers, our current DDs
‘84 Tin Top - Hilga....Auto |
|
Back to top |
|
|
thebigben Samba Member
Joined: October 22, 2020 Posts: 94 Location: California
|
Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:57 pm Post subject: Re: Red Fluid (ATF) Leak |
|
|
Checked my ATF today and it was bone dry. Tried filling it up a bit, but quickly realized I might as well just pour the bottle directly onto the pavement.
Sure hope that it hasn't already been damaged! I wasn't having any shifting trouble/noise.
It'll get towed from SF to Chico on Monday. _________________ Ben
'85 2WD Westy w/ Peloquin TBD + 2.2 Subi (Kurt Vannegut) |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Eric_Taylor Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2011 Posts: 291 Location: Bend, Oregon
|
Posted: Sat May 01, 2021 9:26 am Post subject: Re: Red Fluid (ATF) Leak |
|
|
When were you checking it? This has been said many places, but is always worth repeating, the fluid has to be checked after you drive it and warm it up for at least 10 minutes and then checked while the van is running. Without that, the level will be way off, ask me how I know.
When you poured it in, did it actually leak directly out? The leak in the picture needs to be addressed, but it doesn't look like it's just an open hole. The fact that it's driving fine suggests that it's holding a decent amount of fluid. The difference between off the bottom of the stick and the full mark is somewhere around half a quart if I remember right. The trans holds a LOT more than that. The point is, it's probably ok in general and just needs to get the leak dealt with. Hoping for a warranty for you as that's major work to deal with. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
MarkWard Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005 Posts: 17120 Location: Retired South Florida
|
Posted: Sat May 01, 2021 10:25 am Post subject: Re: Red Fluid (ATF) Leak |
|
|
thebigben wrote: |
Checked my ATF today and it was bone dry. Tried filling it up a bit, but quickly realized I might as well just pour the bottle directly onto the pavement.
Sure hope that it hasn't already been damaged! I wasn't having any shifting trouble/noise.
It'll get towed from SF to Chico on Monday. |
That makes no sense. If the trans leaked 3 qts of fluid it would be everywhere. It also would have shifting problems if it were empty. Probably is best to tow it to someone knowledgeable. _________________ ☮️ |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50338
|
Posted: Sat May 01, 2021 11:58 am Post subject: Re: Red Fluid (ATF) Leak |
|
|
I would be concerned that it is coming out the vent and running down from above. As others mentioned it doesn't look like much of a leak at this point. I would recommend removing the differential fill plug and checking the level of the gear oil within before driving it further. This requires some form of a 17mm allan tool.
You want it on a car hauler as automatic transmissions don't take kindly to being towed unless the axle shafts are removed first. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
thebigben Samba Member
Joined: October 22, 2020 Posts: 94 Location: California
|
Posted: Sat May 01, 2021 10:50 pm Post subject: Re: Red Fluid (ATF) Leak |
|
|
The fluid was checked with the engine running for 10+ minutes, but not driving. When I checked before the engine was running, the level was much higher than the marks on the dipstick.
It didn't leak "directly" out, but with the engine running, started dripping heavily, about once a second -- enough to form a solid puddle within a minute or so.
Just to be clear, I never said I filled it with 3Q. I started filling slowly, and checking for leaks as I went. I stopped once I noticed how fast it was leaking.
This morning I checked and it was clear that it really did all drip out.
I haven't tried running or shifting since this experience, for obvious reasons.
Thanks for the recommendation on car hauler. _________________ Ben
'85 2WD Westy w/ Peloquin TBD + 2.2 Subi (Kurt Vannegut) |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|