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IdahoDoug
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Location: N. Idaho
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 Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2015 9:22 pm Post subject: Does the ideal Vanagon battery charger exist? |
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Like a lot of you, I use my Van out in remote areas, and we often sleep in it like a little camper. For those times, we are using battery power for fans, DVD player, phone and computer chargers and reading lights. So I lug a spare battery around on those trips and that's what we draw on to preserve the starter battery. It also provides a backup for a jump start in the middle of nowhere. Some day I will install a 2nd battery and the Yandina system, but for now we have 4 vehicles we rotate sleeping in like this, and a huge powerful deep cycle battery with an inverter has been perfect. Even works in a tent!
For years I've watched the jump packs get smaller and also get more useful with their powered USBs, and extra 12v outlets, and I know some of you carry those. My battery charger burned out after a mere 27 years of life last month and I'm looking for a new one and have been hoping to find a single unit that does both of these functions. So I'm wondering if anybody knows of a single unit that can do both tasks - serve as a jump pack, and also as a conventional battery charger around the garage? It seems like the Li Ion batteries are arriving for the jump packs in droves, so its my wet dream that someone out there is making a battery charger that also has a battery in it, and that battery is a small powerful Li Ion battery that fits in the glovebox. I can't think of a better form factor. Anyone know of such a product in the US market?
Thanks,
Doug
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1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader |
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Abscate
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| Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 4:02 am Post subject: |
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I'm not aware of a product like this but charging and storage are too pretty different functions. A good Schumacher charger for the garage and 50 amp jump will only run you about 50 bucks.
On our boat we use the house batteries and keep a small battery pack (usg charge, Li ion) for emergency starts
Maybe something like this?
http://www.lowes.com/pd_595192-41462-XP2260_0__?pr...57fe13db33
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djkeev
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nocreditnodebt
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| Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 11:26 am Post subject: |
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Nope. There is no perfect automatic charger. They all revert to float voltage well before a deeply cycled battery would like, and flash that soothing green light which mocks any human who believes it.
Some chargers are better than others for sure, but most are just well marketed junk with that soothing green light which apparently makes the human's brain release serotonin, ,and inspires 'follow me' signs by the consumer of them.
I use an adjustable voltage power supply capable of 40 amps. Meanwell rsp-500-15. I hold absorption voltage until specific gravity maxes out, or, on my AGM, ABSV is held until amps required to hold absorption voltage taper to a certain level. 0.42 amps on my 90AH AGM battery.
I've never tried to use the 40 amps as an engine assist, Never had to.
I have a Schumacher sc2500a which either flashes the green light when the battery needs 2 to 3 more hours at absorption voltage, or it skyrockets past absorption voltage, abusing the battery with 15 or 25 amps upto 16.4 volts. Which is extremely abusive to the battery, and dangerous. It is now in pieces in a paper bag. I hope some thicker DC output wiring takes its neurosis.
Beware of all marketing claims. Don't fear a higher rate charger either. The trickle charge crowd is alive and well, but many trickle chargers cannot fully charge a battery which has been worked hard and is sulfated, no matter how long it is left on. Higher amp charge rates to higher voltages are the only thing which has a hope of fully charging an already compromised battery. |
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insyncro
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Posts: 15086
Location: New York
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| Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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I use a Braille.
They are very good, the batteries, excellent.
Yup, big dollars. |
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Royb
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| Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 8:08 am Post subject: |
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I just us a 15 watt trickle charger- works at home, works camping. But I live in sunny CA- although the trees in my current driveway aren't helping.
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j_dirge
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| Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 8:27 am Post subject: |
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Hey Doug,,
Am in a similar boat.
I chose to buy a Schumaker home-garage unit.. I think I paid $90, but I bought it in small town autoparts place and paid premium for it.
It is a very decent charger compared to the old beast I had.. which, like your's, was 20 or 30 yrs old.
The new charger is able to charge my older deep cycles much better.. bringing the charge up higher than the old beast could.
I have been looking into a permanent on-board charger.. a marine unit which is multi-phase..
That idea is becoming more attractive since I don't really want to carry the charger around with me on trips to the family cabin, etc.
The idea then is to pull into the garage and plug in and forget about it
I am running a starter battery, an auxiliary for heavier use (43qt fridge/frzr and occasional inverter).. and a smaller 2nd auxiliary battery for propex heater and house lights aft of the front seats.
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IdahoDoug
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| Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 9:01 am Post subject: |
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Hmm. Bummed there is nothing out there. As a former product developer, it seems obvious that the two functions:
"I'm a homeowner, charge my battery"
"I'm a homeowner, jump my battery"
are so close to one another as to be painfully obvious for a single unit with much greater value added than two separate units. With the tiny Li-Ion batteries now common, the form factor is easily possible as well. Instead, we get chargers with air compressors, integrated cat litter boxes, and buggy whips. Grrrr. Bet the Europeans have what I'm looking for...
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1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader |
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Abscate
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| Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 9:26 am Post subject: |
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Aa a marketing guy, while the technical product is very close, the end user need is not.
One is give me convenient way to keep my battery topped
the other
Holy crap, Im 15 minutes late to work, the CEO wants that file, and my battery is dead...
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IdahoDoug
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| Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 10:19 am Post subject: |
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Well, it's an odd thing to argue, but I'll bite.
Both end user needs involve providing assurance the car will start, right? Both needs require opening the hood, grabbing a 15lb item from your shelf and connecting jumper cables to the battery, right? Both involve "filling" your battery with additional electrical capacity, right?
I find it hard to find two more parallel and overlapping needs that could be fulfilled by a single product. Heck, my last battery charger will in fact fulfill both end user needs you mention as disparate - jump starting a morning dead battery so I can see my CEO, and topping off the battery. Since both end user needs have been already met by 50 years of battery chargers, it would be hard to argue the end user does not agree. Clearly they do agree.
What my "line extension" strategy suggests is there is an important additional function the charger could provide that requires very little adaptation. It's a function the market has proven exists, which is that of mobile power to start a car without access to plugging in the device. Anytime a given product can be adapted to absorb another proven function with little risk or additional investment, it should be given strong consideration.
Doug
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1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader |
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djkeev
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insyncro
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| Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 10:54 am Post subject: |
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I posted a Kickstarter months ago featuring a waterproof, solar powered pack with jumper capabilities, strings of LED camping lights, USB 3.0 and tons of more options.
A few different models are available.
I am one of the backers of this company so I am just making people aware that products do exist, not selling anything.
They are selling like hotcakes and rave reviews can be found in popular Outdoor Mags.
I have the 600a and 900a versions.
Both turn over a Vanagon with a dead battery easily. |
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boroko
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| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 1:03 am Post subject: |
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I recently tired one of the Li Ion "jump packs". In fact, I tried two of them. They went back. I got about 3 revs on the motor trying to be jumped, and not very fast. Now, I'm pretty involved in electronics and have a lot of faith that the Li Ion packs will be useful if you find the right one, but I haven't.
There are a couple of things that are in conflict with them. The cell voltage doesn't line up with a normal flooded lead acid. That means that you either have too much voltage, or not enough. One of the big warnings on the ones that I had was not to leave them hooked up for more than 30 seconds once the engine started. I suspect the charging system would conflict. Another was that they were fused for 400A, or so they said. It only had, maybe 8ga wire, seems to me that 400A would be pretty exciting on that small of wire. In my opinion, the commonly available ones are not yet ready for prime time.
My solution was to get a replacement battery for my old Century jumper pack. It uses a SLA that normally is put into service on UPS systems or battery powered vehicles. It has started many cars, some without even having a battery in them. Somewhat heavy, but it works. No bling, just a battery in a case with decent sized wires and clamps.
I have an assortment of battery chargers, including an old Atlas that will melt a battery if you let it. Its really a beastly thing and has the transformer and rectifiers sealed in an oil bath for cooling.
For your solution to a charger/jumper, why not just use the jumper pack and its charger for your needs. Mine charges at over 1A and works fine as a maintainer. Plug the jumper into its charger, and connect it to your battery in question. It has worked for me.
Anyway, sorry for the ramble. Bottom line. if you get a jump pack, buy a decent one, and I haven't found a decent Li Ion one yet.
Bo
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previous: 2 Syncro tin tops, 2 Vanagons, 3 busses, 3 Ghias, 2 Jettas, a 411, a gas and a diesel Bunny and about 25 Beetles, one that only drove left. |
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Abscate
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| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 5:27 am Post subject: |
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I think I see the technical mismatch, on rereading the OP
The new small Li ion jump packs store relatively little energy ( watts times time) they are just able to give it in a short burst...perfect for starting.
For recharging a battery for house use, you need 1000 watt hours plus the loss...no getting around it, once you disconnect from the plug.
Once you store 1000 watt hours, there is no need for the burst solution, you have enough energy to start.
Incidentally, I have had no luck getting a Li ion pack to start a fairly high (10.5) compression ration BMW X3. It starts every other car in the fleet from a no crank, but that car is a problem. Of course, it is driven by SWMBO..
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IdahoDoug
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| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 10:42 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the reviews and info. Seems like the current stuff is still in its infancy. I will get a new conventional charger and continue using a massive deep cycle as my "house" battery solution. It has worked well for years. Sometimes the fan is on high all night for 3 nights, and we charge 4 cell phones, and run reading lights late into the night and it has never drained the deep cycle. We usually only camp once a trip in a campground, so I think I will try to find a charger that is on the compact side so we can plug in and recharge with it that one time we have electrical to be sure. I like the Schumacher unit.
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1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader |
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dobryan
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| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 11:34 am Post subject: |
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Doug, I love the Iota series of chargers because they are also power supplies as well. I mounted mine behind the drivers seat and when I am plugged in while in the garage it keeps the batteries fully charged and also can run the Wynter 63qt fridge. On my long trip this summer it came in real handy when I was staying in an area where a plug was within extension cord range, like at AKWestys. See cord in the pic. We also carried one of those small Lion battery packs as a spare jump pack because it took up so little room. YMMV. 😀
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IdahoDoug
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| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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Wow. That may be one of the best Vanagon photos of all time to me. Just knowing where you are at that moment makes it very meaningful. What a stunner of a place to hang out. I will check out the brand. I'd have already snagged the Schumacher charger I mentioned above but they were out of them when I got engine oil today.
Doug
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1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader |
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