Type 3 rear brake offset?

[QRP]

Seeing if anyone knows how much offset type 3 brakes will add to the rear?

[modok]

As compared with what?

[QRP]

[b-man]

Was looking into that myself and after measuring both drums from the mounting face to the back edge the difference in width was pretty much equal to the difference in brake shoe width.

30mm for the Type I versus 46mm for the Type III.

The Type III drums will push the wheels out by 16mm or approximately .630” per side.
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1956 Dove Blue Panel
1966 Velvet Green Single Cab
1957 L41 Black Oval Window Beetle

[QRP]

[b-man]

I was comparing 1958 bug and 1965 wide-5 Type III drums.

I would imagine the difference in 4-lug drums would be the same.
_________________
1956 Dove Blue Panel
1966 Velvet Green Single Cab
1957 L41 Black Oval Window Beetle

[EVfun]

[QRP]

Thanks for the info guys.
I'm gonna remove the the rear drum and hub from my squareback and get an exact measurement.

[modok]

I have a 1960 drum, and some four lug type-3 in a crate, could measure those

five lug type-3 are on the car, can't measure.
Although speaking of that, I don't think I'd do it again.
Rather use bus or aftermarket heavy duty drums on late bug backing plates.

[QRP]

[modok]

Interesting.
Five lug of the smaller kind

[QRP]

[catarinoforlife]

Don't forget that if you're using a short axle, you'll need to have the snout of the drum (where the castle nut goes) is turned down. I think I had mine turned down 9/16" for my '66 Type 1.

[raygreenwood]

[modok]

The type-3 rear has several design compromises, which allowed the same shoes to be used front and rear.
It is larger brake, but it isn't any more rigid, and I'm at a loss for finding any way to make it work better at high speeds. Going to more aggressive friction material would make the flex problems and uneven shoe wear worse than it already is.

On my buggy I have the usual sturdy steel wheels, 5-lug on late type-1, and I eventually realized the wheels were warping the drums because the lug nut seats weren't quite right. Once I re-machined the lug bolts to a different ball diameter to mesh with whatever odd angle the wheels had, the warp was gone and it works really better than it should for what it is. I actually think it is working BETTER than four lug drum because the sturdy wheel is adding rigidity to the drum.

In the FRONT, I think dual leading shoes or disks are the only real solutions.
but for the rear IMO there is nothing really wrong with the type-1 design, I would just get some very sturdy drums and fine tune as needed.

And speaking of that, if you need some of the four lug OE type-3 drums, I won't be needing them.....

[EVfun]

I know more about the T3 brakes now! It left me with a thought to add. The rear brakes on the early 924 US non-turbo models are basically the same brakes as the '68 up Bug. They use a 19mm wheel cylinder. That provides another option if your goal is to slightly increase the power of the rear brakes if needed to improve brake balance (like powerful discs up front.)
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[raygreenwood]

[modok]

5-lug, I think they are Italian made, or some other european country. I think they are decent and I was satisfied with them at first.
I also have a few sets of the OE four lug type3 drums, I was planning on using them at some point but I think I have changed my mind.
I did not know they have made aftermarket drums one piece, but does not surprise me, I have fought with other aftermarket drums made that way.
Reproduction chrysler ones I remember well, runout everywhere, nowhere near even wall thickness and definitely not balanced. I did my best with what was there.

I know restricting myself to drum brakes..... I only get one panic stop from high speed, but that one panic stop needs to be as predictable and smooth as possible, and the bigger type-3 drums are no better at that. Made sense at the time, but the reality of driving an archaic museum exhibit is changing.
I think I can get equal or better performance out of a type-1 drum, just more possibilities.

[modok]

hard to explain and I'm not sure if i understand it fully myself..... but, lets say....
The occasional strange braking behavior at high speeds which is bugging me, is due to.... the shoes shifting around on the abutments, or the build up of dust, rust, water and/or and unidentifyable goop, is actually worse with the larger brake shoes than it is with the small ones.

Seems to work very counterintuitive and all the things I try that don't work better sure has been frustrating.
one time.... 63 bug front brakes....started acting a bit grabby, I found the leading shoes were totally stuck in the abutments and one of the springs was gone once I fixed it good as new, actually worked slightly worse. The shoes had been being stuck in the abutments for a long time, and eventually it became grabby, but PRIOR to that it was actually working BETTER than usual. Real face-palm stuff.

[raygreenwood]