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Dan2973 Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2019 Posts: 433 Location: NJ
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Posted: Sun May 09, 2021 3:40 pm Post subject: Another voltage regulator ? |
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Hey guys I have been trying to figure out what is draining my battery down and I’m stumped. I have a 1966 beetle I restored. It’s 6 volt and everything is clean and new including wire harness and fuse block and optima battery. I ruled out the retro radio because I disconnected it and my battery still drains down to 6.2v. I have been reading similar posts and reading the Bentley and other manuals. I have ruled out a parasitic drain by testing with a test light at the battery and also with a voltage meter. I have documented voltage each day for a week after a full charge. I start with like 7 v the first day and falls to 6.5 v by day 5. So today I take the car to my moms and on the way home it rains so I turn on the lights and wipers and make it home to my house and shut the car off in the driveway. Go to start it right after and it’s dead at 6.2v. Now I have ran tests such as testing the battery at 2000 rpm with a voltage meter and the voltage spikes up. I also tested the generator output with a voltage meter by grounding out DF and hooking up the meter to the D+ and rev up to 2000 rpm and the voltage spikes to like 20. Could it be the regulator? I’m not understanding the Bentley when it talks about connecting sliding resistance with an ammeter. Can anyone simplify the regulator test? Any other help would be appreciated. Thanks guys |
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Eric&Barb Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004 Posts: 24732 Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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Posted: Sun May 09, 2021 5:43 pm Post subject: Re: Another voltage regulator ? |
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Dan2973 wrote: |
I’m not understanding the Bentley when it talks about connecting sliding resistance with an ammeter. |
Think of an electric heating element in a box. Electricity goes thru it and causes heat, that uses lots of electrical power. Now hook up a knob so one can adjust the electrical draw of the heating element from a little load to a lot.
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trk...p;_sacat=0 _________________ In Stereo, Where Available! |
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Dan2973 Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2019 Posts: 433 Location: NJ
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Posted: Mon May 10, 2021 2:37 am Post subject: Re: Another voltage regulator ? |
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Is there any other regulator tests? |
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anthracitedub Samba Member
Joined: June 20, 2007 Posts: 3241 Location: Michigan
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Posted: Mon May 10, 2021 4:30 am Post subject: Re: Another voltage regulator ? |
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Sounds like the classic hard start issue that a lot of 6v cars have . Both of my 6 v cars with optima batteries start up with 6 volts and my batteries never charge up to 7 volts. You may want to review a hard start relay or a new ignition switch. |
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Dan2973 Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2019 Posts: 433 Location: NJ
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Posted: Mon May 10, 2021 7:36 am Post subject: Re: Another voltage regulator ? |
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anthracitedub wrote: |
Sounds like the classic hard start issue that a lot of 6v cars have . Both of my 6 v cars with optima batteries start up with 6 volts and my batteries never charge up to 7 volts. You may want to review a hard start relay or a new ignition switch. |
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Thanks for the reply. I really didn’t consider a hard start relay. I actually wasn’t sure exactly what that was but now I’m reading into it. I understand that the hard start relay helps with starting but is it really fixing the actual problem of the battery draining? |
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anthracitedub Samba Member
Joined: June 20, 2007 Posts: 3241 Location: Michigan
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Posted: Mon May 10, 2021 9:04 am Post subject: Re: Another voltage regulator ? |
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I think your battery could be over charging, with it being 7 volts. Mine both stay at roughly 6.2 volts. One car has an OE regulator and the other has the solid state regulator. They both maintain the battery at similar voltages.
Does your battery just steadily drop down below 6 volts? The electrical system in an old v dub is fairly basic, shouldn’t be difficult to find what’s draining unless you’ve added extra circuits. |
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Eric&Barb Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004 Posts: 24732 Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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Posted: Mon May 10, 2021 9:06 am Post subject: Re: Another voltage regulator ? |
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Lead acid batteries do loose voltage with time when sitting. You can test this by disconnecting the battery from the VW, and charge it up with a battery charger. Then test each day to see what the voltage is with it still disconnected from the VW.
Could be your battery is going bad and not producing the amperage it needs to get the starter or even the starter solenoid working. Your FLAPS should be able to check that for you for free.
With having a problem with starting the beetle at 6.2 volts, most likely you need to clean and dielectric grease both the wiring and ground connections. Had same problem with our 1963 single cab that would not start each morning without using jumper cables, cleaned all the wiring connections and it worked better at starting next day, but not days after that. Cleaned and dielectric greased the ground connections between the starter solenoid and the same for the ground connection between the starter and transaxle where the starter mounts. Now can the starter engages and starts the engine after sitting a week or more.
Sure a starter relay might get the starter to work, but even if it does the rest of the wiring is very likely not getting full voltage to the rest of the electrical system. Which results in dimmer lights, slower wipers, and even the horn not working with headlights and wipers are running. It is very important to see in darker driving conditions where you are going and that anyone can see you and where you are going. If your turn signals and brake lights are so dim that the driver behind you can not see them due to their modern bright headlights are flooding out your signals.....
You probably also need to solder up the connections inside the fuse box and headlight switch. Those connections get corrosion inside and results in them heating up, which in turn results in voltage drops. Have seen up to 2 volts of drop and been able to easily get that down to 1/10 volt.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=483901&highlight=fuse+box+soldering
http://type2.com/library/electris/vw-hauptlicht-schalter.html _________________ In Stereo, Where Available! |
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mukluk Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2012 Posts: 7023 Location: Clyde, TX
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Posted: Mon May 10, 2021 9:07 am Post subject: Re: Another voltage regulator ? |
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From your problem description I would highly suggest rechecking for loose battery cable connections (both ends of both cables). I would also test to see if the battery still loses its charge when it is disconnected, as it's quite possible the battery is bad and simply won't hold a charge anymore.
Dan2973 wrote: |
Is there any other regulator tests? |
_________________ 1960 Ragtop w/Semaphores "Inga" |
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Dan2973 Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2019 Posts: 433 Location: NJ
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Posted: Mon May 10, 2021 10:33 am Post subject: Re: Another voltage regulator ? |
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anthracitedub wrote: |
I think your battery could be over charging, with it being 7 volts. Mine both stay at roughly 6.2 volts. One car has an OE regulator and the other has the solid state regulator. They both maintain the battery at similar voltages.
Does your battery just steadily drop down below 6 volts? The electrical system in an old v dub is fairly basic, shouldn’t be difficult to find what’s draining unless you’ve added extra circuits. |
When I get home from work today I am going test the voltage and report back. I would like to approach this step by step. Maybe I will take out the battery and see if it drains after a week. |
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Dan2973 Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2019 Posts: 433 Location: NJ
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Posted: Mon May 10, 2021 10:39 am Post subject: Re: Another voltage regulator ? |
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mukluk wrote: |
From your problem description I would highly suggest rechecking for loose battery cable connections (both ends of both cables). I would also test to see if the battery still loses its charge when it is disconnected, as it's quite possible the battery is bad and simply won't hold a charge anymore.
Dan2973 wrote: |
Is there any other regulator tests? |
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I’m going to check connections at battery and ground straps to frame and tranny and report back. Like a said everything is clean and tight but hey ya never know. |
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KTPhil Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006 Posts: 33991 Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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Posted: Mon May 10, 2021 10:48 am Post subject: Re: Another voltage regulator ? |
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Dan2973 wrote: |
I understand that the hard start relay helps with starting but is it really fixing the actual problem of the battery draining? |
No. |
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Dan2973 Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2019 Posts: 433 Location: NJ
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Posted: Mon May 10, 2021 3:35 pm Post subject: Re: Another voltage regulator ? |
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anthracitedub wrote: |
I think your battery could be over charging, with it being 7 volts. Mine both stay at roughly 6.2 volts. One car has an OE regulator and the other has the solid state regulator. They both maintain the battery at similar voltages.
Does your battery just steadily drop down below 6 volts? The electrical system in an old v dub is fairly basic, shouldn’t be difficult to find what’s draining unless you’ve added extra circuits. |
Got Home from work and took the battery out of the car and put it on the bench and tested it. I had 7.2 V and then it started to drop, and after three hours it was 6.84 V. I am assuming it’s going to continue to drop. I will check and see what the voltage is in the morning and check back. |
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anthracitedub Samba Member
Joined: June 20, 2007 Posts: 3241 Location: Michigan
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Posted: Mon May 10, 2021 4:21 pm Post subject: Re: Another voltage regulator ? |
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I think it’s over charging. It should be 6.2 ish. I checked both of my optima batteries and they were both just barely over 6 v. |
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Dan2973 Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2019 Posts: 433 Location: NJ
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Posted: Tue May 11, 2021 3:09 am Post subject: Re: Another voltage regulator ? |
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anthracitedub wrote: |
I think it’s over charging. It should be 6.2 ish. I checked both of my optima batteries and they were both just barely over 6 v. |
I checked before work this morning and it’s at 6.73v. Are you saying it shouldn’t be this high? What is causing the overcharging? Regulator? |
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anthracitedub Samba Member
Joined: June 20, 2007 Posts: 3241 Location: Michigan
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Posted: Tue May 11, 2021 3:51 am Post subject: Re: Another voltage regulator ? |
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Seems high to me . Someone could have modified the regulator to cut out at a higher output... this is done by bending the contact points inside the regulator.
My solid state reg keeps my battery at exactly 6.2 volts. That’s why I think your car starts up fine when the battery is slightly over charged and then when it gets lower, closer to 6v you begin having the hard start problems.
There’s some threads on here going into the details of the regulators and how to adjust them by bending the points inside... I was gonna get into all that with one of my cars but I ended up buying a solid state reg for it just to be finished with the possibility of issues . |
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Dan2973 Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2019 Posts: 433 Location: NJ
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Posted: Tue May 11, 2021 8:48 am Post subject: Re: Another voltage regulator ? |
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anthracitedub wrote: |
Seems high to me . Someone could have modified the regulator to cut out at a higher output... this is done by bending the contact points inside the regulator.
My solid state reg keeps my battery at exactly 6.2 volts. That’s why I think your car starts up fine when the battery is slightly over charged and then when it gets lower, closer to 6v you begin having the hard start problems.
There’s some threads on here going into the details of the regulators and how to adjust them by bending the points inside... I was gonna get into all that with one of my cars but I ended up buying a solid state reg for it just to be finished with the possibility of issues . |
Yeah I hear you. I guess now it’s a waiting game to see if it’s the battery first. |
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Eric&Barb Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004 Posts: 24732 Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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Posted: Tue May 11, 2021 9:01 am Post subject: Re: Another voltage regulator ? |
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anthracitedub wrote: |
Seems high to me . . |
The old points type regulator always goes higher in voltage. Thus the stamped 14 for 12 volt and 7 for 6 volt electrical on items like regulators and generators. _________________ In Stereo, Where Available! |
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Dan2973 Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2019 Posts: 433 Location: NJ
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Posted: Tue May 11, 2021 3:36 pm Post subject: Re: Another voltage regulator ? |
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Eric&Barb wrote: |
anthracitedub wrote: |
Seems high to me . . |
The old points type regulator always goes higher in voltage. Thus the stamped 14 for 12 volt and 7 for 6 volt electrical on items like regulators and generators. |
So are those numbers normal? Reading through the threads, others have said they can start their car with 6.2 v but I can’t |
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Eric&Barb Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004 Posts: 24732 Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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Posted: Tue May 11, 2021 3:52 pm Post subject: Re: Another voltage regulator ? |
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Dan2973 wrote: |
Eric&Barb wrote: |
anthracitedub wrote: |
Seems high to me . . |
The old points type regulator always goes higher in voltage. Thus the stamped 14 for 12 volt and 7 for 6 volt electrical on items like regulators and generators. |
So are those numbers normal? Reading through the threads, others have said they can start their car with 6.2 v but I can’t |
6.2 volts for starting should be fine. 7.2 volts is maximum the regulator should put out and the battery will charge up a bit higher than 6.2 volts due to that. Of course the longer the battery sits without getting charged up the lower the battery voltage will get, thus the need for a battery minder for any VW that is not daily driven. _________________ In Stereo, Where Available! |
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Dan2973 Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2019 Posts: 433 Location: NJ
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Posted: Tue May 11, 2021 4:26 pm Post subject: Re: Another voltage regulator ? |
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Eric&Barb wrote: |
Dan2973 wrote: |
Eric&Barb wrote: |
anthracitedub wrote: |
Seems high to me . . |
The old points type regulator always goes higher in voltage. Thus the stamped 14 for 12 volt and 7 for 6 volt electrical on items like regulators and generators. |
So are those numbers normal? Reading through the threads, others have said they can start their car with 6.2 v but I can’t |
6.2 volts for starting should be fine. 7.2 volts is maximum the regulator should put out and the battery will charge up a bit higher than 6.2 volts due to that. Of course the longer the battery sits without getting charged up the lower the battery voltage will get, thus the need for a battery minder for any VW that is not daily driven. |
I drive the car a few times a week. Why do you think it doesn’t start at 6.3 v? |
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