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Nickel_Nackel
Samba Member
Joined: February 07, 2018
Posts: 187
Location: Bellingahm WA
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 Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 1:44 pm Post subject: Cleaning Breather Tower |
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Hi,
trying to track down an idle issue and after checking everything else I decided to look at the breather tower. It seems to be leaking oil from the base because that whole area is caked with grime. The 4 bolts holding in place came off with just my fingers. After taking it off I found a lot of yellow goop inside
I just spray carb cleaner in there right?
Then on the crank case there is so much sludge which I'm sure is normal??
Should I try and clean up the crankcase opening?
I am wondering if this idle issue is because the tower wasn't making a strong enough seal and there was a large vacuum leak?
I notice when ever I have the van running and take the oil fill cap off its starts to run rough, bog and die.
I guess my main question is should I clean it out the best I can with carb cleaner or should I buy a new one?
Also I am on my way to the hardware store now to see if I can find an oring
Thanks
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1985 1.9L Potato |
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jlrftype7
Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2018
Posts: 3577
Location: Chicago
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 1:53 pm Post subject: Re: Cleaning Breather Tower |
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You will need that O-ring at the base, it's common for engine heat to cook it and get hard, which leads to leaking. Gunk will reflect engine driving, like lots of short trips could show build up of wetness, while long high speed driving would probably burn all that off eventually along with oil changes.
New version Breather Towers/Valves are available from time to time, but not exactly like the original ones from what posters here on Samba say. I have one of the Reproduction Towers, seems to work okay, and I have several of the base o-rings on hand since I don't want to be without them if I need to pull the tower off for whatever reason.. Still not sure if there's no longer a valve inside the new ones, or is it just a baffle of sorts and small port/hole to transfer vapor but limit oil droplets getting past
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'68 Westy- my first VW and vehicle/Bus- long gone.- sold it to a traveling Swiss couple....
'67 Type 3 Fastback, my 2nd car- gone
'69 Semi-Auto Stick Shift Beetle-gone
2017 MINI Coopers, our current DDs
‘84 Tin Top - Hilga....Auto |
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SCM
Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2011
Posts: 3115
Location: Bozeman MT
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 2:10 pm Post subject: Re: Cleaning Breather Tower |
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| Nickel_Nackel wrote: |
I am wondering if this idle issue is because the tower wasn't making a strong enough seal and there was a large vacuum leak? |
This is a guess on my part but I think you could be right because the tower is connected to the intake downstream of the AFM. I'll have to take a look mine since I also have been (half-heartedly) chasing a vacuum leak.
It couldn't hurt to clean that gook out but I think any improvement you get will be from fixing the seal between the tower and the crank case.
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'91 Westfalia GL Automatic (GTA "Turbo" Rebuild w/Peloquin) and 2.3L GoWesty Engine |
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Nickel_Nackel
Samba Member
Joined: February 07, 2018
Posts: 187
Location: Bellingahm WA
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 7:49 pm Post subject: Re: Cleaning Breather Tower |
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So after re assembly the Van still dies at idle. it did run for a about 1 min longer before it started to bog down and die.
Once the van is warm it runs fine.
Can anyone tell me why my van dies the moment I take the oil fill cap off?
is the oil losing pressure when I take the cap off, and thats whats causing the problem?
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1985 1.9L Potato |
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jlrftype7
Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2018
Posts: 3577
Location: Chicago
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 8:11 pm Post subject: Re: Cleaning Breather Tower |
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| Nickel_Nackel wrote: |
So after re assembly the Van still dies at idle. it did run for a about 1 min longer before it started to bog down and die.
Once the van is warm it runs fine.
Can anyone tell me why my van dies the moment I take the oil fill cap off?
is the oil losing pressure when I take the cap off, and thats whats causing the problem? |
. Nothing wrong with dying out with the cap removed or rough running by pulling the dipstick out- classic inability of Air Flow Meter system vs a newer Air Mass engine system, the older AFM and ECU can’t correct for the massive unmetered air leak you introduced with removing the cap. Newer systems will keep idling away, eventually set Check Engine Light for lean mixture, but we get no idle with our old system if we try that.
Not unique to VW Vanagons.... 
Okay, back to your engine. Have you checked the ohm value of your Temp sensor 2 during that bogging/warm up phase.
If you are IN value for starting , then go OUT of value as the engine warms up the coolant, you can get poor injection control until the Temp Sensor is back to the correct specs as the engine gets even warmer, like fully hot. Basically, if the drop in resistance of the NTC sensor is not linear as the engine warms up, you can get some funky running. Bosch , probably VW too, would have listed Ohm values for a correct given resistance reading out of the sensor at a certain coolant temp, or engine temp if it’s Air Cooled engine.
Some temp sensors go bad or out of spec only when fully cold, some are inaccurate at full hot and cause hot restart issues.
And some just have a sketchy patch during warm up, causing driveability issues.
I’ve forgotten, leaving your O2 unplugged has no improvement on the issue, yes? No?
No missed air leaks like under a hose that could have a split , that seals up a bit once the hose is warmed up from engine heat?
That last one happened to me last year or so. Crankcase Breather hose split open about a good 1” or so, only affected the engine during cold warm up driving.[/img]
_________________
'68 Westy- my first VW and vehicle/Bus- long gone.- sold it to a traveling Swiss couple....
'67 Type 3 Fastback, my 2nd car- gone
'69 Semi-Auto Stick Shift Beetle-gone
2017 MINI Coopers, our current DDs
‘84 Tin Top - Hilga....Auto |
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Nickel_Nackel
Samba Member
Joined: February 07, 2018
Posts: 187
Location: Bellingahm WA
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 9:19 pm Post subject: Re: Cleaning Breather Tower |
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Okay good to know about the oil fill cap. I do feel like my crankcase has too much negative pressure, the cap suctions back on to the filler nozzle (normal?)
from what I have read on the CC breather tower thread the tower could be stuck closed creating this pressure.
I just put a new temp 2 sensor in a few days ago with no change. I will test the ohms first thing tomorrow.
If I unplug the sensor with no change does that determine it could be a faulty temp 2 or connectors or will the the van run rough even if the temp 2 is disconnected?
I have replace pretty much all of the hoses.
The van runs great when warm so this all makes sense why the cold start so rough.
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32596
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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jlrftype7
Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2018
Posts: 3577
Location: Chicago
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| Posted: Thu May 13, 2021 9:04 am Post subject: Re: Cleaning Breather Tower |
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| Nickel_Nackel wrote: |
Okay good to know about the oil fill cap. I do feel like my crankcase has too much negative pressure, the cap suctions back on to the filler nozzle (normal?)
from what I have read on the CC breather tower thread the tower could be stuck closed creating this pressure.
I just put a new temp 2 sensor in a few days ago with no change. I will test the ohms first thing tomorrow.
If I unplug the sensor with no change does that determine it could be a faulty temp 2 or connectors or will the the van run rough even if the temp 2 is disconnected?
I have replace pretty much all of the hoses.
The van runs great when warm so this all makes sense why the cold start so rough. |
Ah, didn't know about the new Temp 2 sensor- While new parts can be bad, let's assume it's okay since it didn't affect your issue one way or the other. Unless your wiring has issues that go to the sensor, adding resistance in the circuit that shouldn't be there, your sensor ohm values could be okay. You can always disconnect the Sensor, and disconnect the connector to the ECU, and measure the ohm value of the wires from connector to connector[ not hard at all[ should be very close to zero ideally]
Instead, running rough when cold, and cold start, could be carbon build up on the back of the Intake Valves. There are various Fuel Injection Cleaners out there that you added to the tank, they work, but take time.
Pressurized service kits that are available to spray directly into the fuel feed lines with the vehicle's fuel pump disabled work fastest, since you're spraying pressurized cleaner directly through the injectors and onto the backs of the intake valves, but usually only shops have the money to spend on these.
SO, if you're not sure you've ever added fuel cleaner to your gas tank, and the age of the engine is unknown with regards to how long the intake valves have been in there, buy a couple of Cans of Chevron Techron cleaner, add 1 can to a full to 3/4 tank of gas in the Vanagon and start driving. Apparently there are several versions of the cleaner now on the marker, and only one is the 'old school' version that we are all used to using for faster results.
I think Ray Greenwood posted which one to buy and why Chevron felt the need to meet air quality emissions issues by offering re-formulated versions for certain markets that are of much lower cleaning power.
Won't correct vacuum leaks or fix anything else, but it's a good regular maint. item to do once or twice a year.
If you are doubting your old Crankcase Venting Tower, then replace it, as I've lived through a clogged one,..... it built up crankcase pressure so fast that pressure would squeal out of several seals when I shut the engine off, and I got a HILARIOUS squirting of oil out one of the Push Rod Tube Seals to boot for my troubles. Kind of blew my mind on that one..... 
A new Tower cure all that, and I replaced all the worn push rod tube seals with spring loaded versions....  
_________________
'68 Westy- my first VW and vehicle/Bus- long gone.- sold it to a traveling Swiss couple....
'67 Type 3 Fastback, my 2nd car- gone
'69 Semi-Auto Stick Shift Beetle-gone
2017 MINI Coopers, our current DDs
‘84 Tin Top - Hilga....Auto |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50338
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| Posted: Thu May 13, 2021 9:55 am Post subject: Re: Cleaning Breather Tower |
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Your engine looks nasty as heck. Are you sure your thermostat is working correctly and letting the engine get to operating temperature quickly? Too many short trips are bad as well. Did you try to blow or suck through the breather? It is supposed to regulate the pressure in the crankcase, but once diaphragm falls apart it should be stay open, though it is possible that the port in the breather ends up blocked closed.
Synthetic oil will help keep your engine cleaner inside, and since you can usually run it for longer intervals be cheaper in the long run than dino oil.
You could get hold of one of the breather hose orifices off of a 2.1L engine, that will help modulate the pulse from the crankcase that can effect your idle. Adding the Vanagon Syndrome Capacitor can help clean up the idle as well.
You can seal the breather down with silicone, just don't go hog wild gobbing it on, a thin smear will do fine. Clean things well, and coat both sides of the new o-ring with RTV silicone and leaving a light smear on the side that goes against the engine. The fasteners are only 6mm so don't go torquing them down like they were head bolts.
If I had an engine that wasn't running well I would start with adding FI cleaner to the gas, especially in this ethanol lace fuel age. |
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Nickel_Nackel
Samba Member
Joined: February 07, 2018
Posts: 187
Location: Bellingahm WA
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| Posted: Thu May 13, 2021 10:25 am Post subject: Re: Cleaning Breather Tower |
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| Are you sure your thermostat is working correctly and letting the engine get to operating temperature quickly? Too many short trips are bad as well. |
I have been dealing with this idle issue so I haven't really been driving it around. just a couple blocks or sitting in my driveway. I did replace my oil the other day, and I have always been using synthetic
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| If I had an engine that wasn't running well I would start with adding FI cleaner to the gas |
I found some Injector cleaner and put that in the other day as well. I just bought some Marvel Mystery and I am wondering if I can add those two together on a full tank of gas?
I have the van running well enough to drive but I have just been afraid of getting it stuck. but ill start driving it today.
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| Did you try to blow or suck through the breather? |
Ill take it off and try that today.
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| you can always disconnect the Sensor, and disconnect the connector to the ECU, and measure the ohm value of the wires from connector to connector[ not hard at all[ should be very close to zero ideally] |
Ill try that today thank you. Ill also keep the tower in mind but Ill have to take it out again and test it better.
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