What are you driving with your BlackBox?

[FreeBug]

Hi.

Are you triggering th coil directly from the BlackBox, or are you inputting into a "multi-spark CDI box" of some sort, then coil?

Right now I have Hall effect -> BlackBox -> Coil.

It seems to be working, on the bench, with no load. But could I do better?

Thanks.

[FreeBug]

Nada?

Basically, I keep reading conflicting info:

-"it can't hurt"- so, that somehow, those multi-sparks are going to going to help, even though it's a normal mild (9.5 static with just under 8 dynamic) street application: Maybe cold, or extreme A/F ratios? I don't think I need anything special for street use?

-"it failed"- there are people out there complaining about how boxes fail, some early, some later, but how reliable are these things? I'm afraid I'm just adding a potential failure point between the BB and the spark.

Or should I be experimenting with plasma, worth the time and effort?

I have very limited experience with these things...I've only ever run an MSD 5200, and I'm not really sure if it's doing anything. It seems pretty light to me, too! Anything in there?

I think the best improvement I can make to the ignition is get the spark timing as precise as possible...but I'm where I'm at (WBX dizzy with Hall) with that, and, as much as I would like to (future prject?), I'm not going to crank fire in the near future.

Any thoughts? I've read the BlackBox threads, but I'm looking for input on MSD, Mallory, Jacob, Crane, box longevity, best spark/$ ratio, etc...

I am, of course, hoping for " I bought this box for (cheap), and it TRANSFORMED the way the engine runs" story. If it's really NOT true, please make one up.

Seriuosly: there is an entire industry devoted to making ignition bits, and 90% of the time, they don't seem to change much in driving experience. I assume the improved mileage claims are mostly bogus, too? I don't have any long-term experience with this stuff.

[Alstrup]

Which ever way you want.
You can even trigger it with points, but I wouldnt recommend that though.
DIY plasma ignition can work very well. Just remember to not "overdo" it. At a given point the plug life takes a serius dive.

The reason to why I write that plasma " can work very well" is that I have seen very variating benefits from it. Some engines (combo´s) respond great to it, other engines "couldn´t care less, and I for one still have no idea why.
A common benefit on all set ups is that cold start is improving radically. Set up right a dual carbed engine will idle after only a few seconds even in sub zero temperatures. Also, emissions are greatly reduced.

For normal dual carbed street engines I think the best bang for the buck is a 60 KV E core coil followed up with some good wires such as Taylor 8,2´s or MSD super conductor. That along with an electronic module and say a BB or Daytona works well.
If you are beginning on a clean sheet of paper there is of course the Megajolt and Nodiz systems that run wasted spark. WS works fine up to around 255-260 degrees @ 0,050" cam duration. Above that I would go sgl spark.
I was an avid user of the modded PCD system I incidently cooked up. Also called "poor mans CDI" but not anymore, because I have realized that no matter where I bought diodes from they were nowhere near the lifespan the manufacturers claimed, - unless the diodes were so expensive that they killed the deal.

So now I am back to using a good deal of "mild" CDI´s with regular coils on street engines (when I am allowed by the customer) The reason is that with say std plus engines where you are on the limit with especially lower rpm mix quality the multistrike, and the more powerfull spark helps a good deal on both idle quality, idle stability, emissions and lower rpm power.

PS. Speaking of idle quality and stability. This is actually one of the areas where a BB, Daytona, Megajolt or Nodiz REALLY shine over say the popular 123 tune. With the 123 you can not take advantage of the vacum signal below 12-1300 rpm since the 123 is basicly an electronic svda on that account.
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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=435993

[FreeBug]

Thanks!

So, as for 60 KV E-coil, I assume you mean somethin like this:

https://vwparts.aircooled.net/Pertronix-60kV-HV-E-core-Ign-Coil-3ohm-60130-p/60130.htm

stupid question: is it beneficial NOT to mount it on the shroud? Where do you put something that size?

So, Hall WBX distributor -> BlackBox -> Pertronix coil -> large tang, resistance-less rotor -> Good plug wires -> protruding nose plugs with no resistance

I have some Magnecor plug wires. Are those ok? If you don't know, I'll just get the ones you recommended.

About fittings...is it worth using the "modern" male fittings on coil, dizzy and plugs?

As for plasma, how much is too much? How far can too far go? I haven't read up on the subject in quite some time, i guess it's time to start learning it all over again...

something-something about capacitors...

[67rustavenger]

If you have room in the engine compartment. You can mount the coil in there.
I mounted Crane LX-92 coil in the rear package tray inside the passenger cabin.
I wouldn't recommend mounting on the FS.

I used a firewall bulk head connector to get the HT lead from the package tray to the engine compartment. and then to the distributor.
You can get the firewall bulkhead HT lead connector from Summit Racing.

I'm not 100% clear on what your seeking here. Torben gets it, But I'm a bit thickheaded.

I run the Cheap Chinese Crane/MSD clone setup in my 67. And can report that the spark improvement really helps with cold starts and overall performance.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=732536

Before completion of the CDI/Coil installation.

_________________
I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!

There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo!

[Alstrup]

Yes, that or similar.
Wrt installation. I usually just mount 4 new thread rivets and place it just about where it sits normally, or if you use a hex bar linkage, down low on the shroud.
Rotor, yes, Or at least use the newer 020-743. That is a good rotor.
Magnecor. Ahh, well, Idunno. Magnecor use materials with a lot of resistance to get the wires EMI/RFI secure. The claim is that it is better than using low resistance coal or carbon core Let me put it this way: Not my cuppa tea. Also, IF that was really true, why are just about every modern engine with CNP coils equipped with low resistance wires? And just about every other engine with COP? It does not make sense to me. IMHO anything over 300 ohm/ft does not make sense, especially not in a higher performance set up. Today we can make 0 ohm/ft. and do, but that is a little more expensive and not really interesting unless you run a high boost turbo and/or exotic fuels.

Plasma. How much is too much. - That is actually a really good question, which I can´t answer fully. I do not have enough experience. I/we are still fumbling around, sorta. It also depends on which plugs you use. There are many variables that I for one are not fully aquainted with. And for high end racing we might end up being overtaken by Transient ignition systems which already now has shown tremendeous emission reductions in both gasoline and post chamber diesel engines. Heavy fuel engines in particular.
Porsche was supposidly coming out with their version of Transient ignition in their top 2022 models, but the Covid 19 situation put a couple of rocks on the road. As far as I have heard it will be pusponed 1 year...
On the other hand. Transient ignition is not for us halfassed amateurs. We best learn to undertand a few other things first.
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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=435993

[BFB]

i cant tell you anything about all the other goodies your asking about but i would say that if this is your first time setting up a black box then id keep it simple for now and add those goodies after your confident in your black box instal and tune. reason i say that is just so you can keep possible error areas to a minimum and keep from chasing ghosts.
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[FreeBug]

[raygreenwood]