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vwpieces Samba Member
Joined: March 23, 2005 Posts: 345 Location: UpHill BothWays, PA
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Posted: Sat May 15, 2021 11:43 am Post subject: 63 Notchback Barn Find Revival |
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Well, guess I will post some pix of this one. This forum needs some action.
Got it about a month ago. Later 63 dated vin. Its a mess but it'll be on the road soon enough. Ugly, but on the road.
Should have taken a before pic of the engine. This is after removing the rats and Mice nests, hay, bedding, poop etc. No joke it was packed full to the engine cover.
results of Mouse PEE
Cyl head full.
Even the fan...
Of course it was parked with a full tank of gas and a leaking carb. This is the worse I have ever seen, Hard Cake.
And MORE issues
Then there was Even MORE
_________________ 68 BUS
83 JETTA TURBO DIESEL
83 2dr JETTA 16V
81 Turbo Diesel Jabbit |
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vwpieces Samba Member
Joined: March 23, 2005 Posts: 345 Location: UpHill BothWays, PA
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Posted: Sat May 15, 2021 11:53 am Post subject: Re: 63 Notchback Barn Find Revival |
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Saw another Old floor jack score recently... Hadda show off mine. 1940s Walker 782 recently restored by me and its first lift.
That jack also came from the same place as the car.
And the before pic
_________________ 68 BUS
83 JETTA TURBO DIESEL
83 2dr JETTA 16V
81 Turbo Diesel Jabbit
Last edited by vwpieces on Sat May 15, 2021 12:03 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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DQDan Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2016 Posts: 351 Location: Cleveland OH
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Posted: Sat May 15, 2021 11:56 am Post subject: Re: 63 Notchback Barn Find Revival |
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Fabulous find, I think a lot of us have experienced the rodent mess but you got a 5 star one there. There were at least 50 generations helping with the urine attack. Great starting point, all complete!! You are showing us all the bad stuff, how about the interior? |
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vwpieces Samba Member
Joined: March 23, 2005 Posts: 345 Location: UpHill BothWays, PA
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Posted: Sat May 15, 2021 12:22 pm Post subject: Re: 63 Notchback Barn Find Revival |
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No interior pics. Its been up in the air (on lift) for weeks now But there are Biohazards in there too. But fortunately no real rodent damage inside.
It is a push button dash car. But it has high back front seats, GRR.
Getting mechanicals sorted for now so it can get back on its wheels and mobile... It's not going to be "correct" but it will be driving.
I have been able to source all the original brake parts. But certainly owe some favors to friends for those parts.
Some Unobtanium Scores. Yeah 4 left fronts... and 2pr of front shoes.
_________________ 68 BUS
83 JETTA TURBO DIESEL
83 2dr JETTA 16V
81 Turbo Diesel Jabbit |
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Bobnotch Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003 Posts: 22407 Location: Kimball, Mi
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Posted: Sun May 16, 2021 9:18 am Post subject: Re: 63 Notchback Barn Find Revival |
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Nice score. Complete and mostly unmolested. Good luck with it, and post lots of pics as you go. We like project pics. _________________ Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote: |
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
Tram wrote: |
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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pitargue Samba Member
Joined: December 24, 2006 Posts: 232
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Posted: Sun May 16, 2021 10:07 am Post subject: Re: 63 Notchback Barn Find Revival |
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What kind of muffler is that. It's kinda cool... |
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vwpieces Samba Member
Joined: March 23, 2005 Posts: 345 Location: UpHill BothWays, PA
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Posted: Sun May 16, 2021 12:28 pm Post subject: Re: 63 Notchback Barn Find Revival |
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Its an old Pacesetter Monza exhaust.
Too many things going on with the car at once. Keep loosing tools, parts and chasing squirrels. And I guess the all nighter don't help progress.
Found 2 German grease-able ball joints, made the other 2 grease-able myself.
Lower beam bearings replaced cause of pitting on needles and the left upper arm was sourced used, with new bearing and Bakelite outer bush in there too. All 4 arm seals are new too. Been up to the elbows in grease doing that work, no progress pics doing that.
Steering box resealed and 1/8in NPT plugs. It also painted black now. It is a really good, low mileage, used unit.
Brake springs were really nasty, never thought they would look like this again
Also finally getting caught up on the blasted parts pile. Almost everything painted.
Engine case finally cleaned and flushed good enough for me to feel comfortable using it. No bearing hammer, bored once before and low mileage since.
_________________ 68 BUS
83 JETTA TURBO DIESEL
83 2dr JETTA 16V
81 Turbo Diesel Jabbit
Last edited by vwpieces on Sun May 16, 2021 12:39 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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vwpieces Samba Member
Joined: March 23, 2005 Posts: 345 Location: UpHill BothWays, PA
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Posted: Sun May 16, 2021 12:35 pm Post subject: Re: 63 Notchback Barn Find Revival |
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Any tips or suggestions to help with a baseline lower torsion arm angle?
Car had a sag on driver side I assume from the bad arm and bearing. But also I was not the first person in there. One front spindle has the M8 BJ pinch bolts and other side is M10 pinch bolts. Assuming one side has been replaced or perhaps it was the use up what we got on the assembly line.
Bout ready to mount the spindles/brakes/drums.
_________________ 68 BUS
83 JETTA TURBO DIESEL
83 2dr JETTA 16V
81 Turbo Diesel Jabbit |
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ataraxia Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010 Posts: 4504 Location: Illinois
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Posted: Mon May 17, 2021 8:52 pm Post subject: Re: 63 Notchback Barn Find Revival |
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M8 pinch bolts were used, IIRC until the end of 63 - I've had a handful of very early 64's and they all had 10mm bolts.
I bet there was damage to the spindle or someone assumed the spindle was bad and swapped it with a later one when it was most likely a failed bearing due to lack of maintenance.
My current car was parked for over 20 years by the 2nd owner because they thought the engine was bad - even rebuilt it - but the issue was the ignition switch shorted on the column. |
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vwpieces Samba Member
Joined: March 23, 2005 Posts: 345 Location: UpHill BothWays, PA
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Posted: Mon May 17, 2021 11:37 pm Post subject: Re: 63 Notchback Barn Find Revival |
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Yeah, The Left spindle is the M10 pinch bolts. Same side I had to replace the upper arm and bearings. Left lower had the rust pitted needles too, replaced both lower needles cause a buddy gave me the pair of NOS bearings.
Electricals are another issue on this car. I can repair most any harness on VW as factory, but I have already been considering replacing this one. Some bad SHtuff.
It will be 12v for the sake of driving it for some time. Keeping the 6v starter and another buddy gave me an NOS 6V nos 200mm flywheel to replace the CHEWED one it had. And already rebuilt a 12V gen... Well, cleaned it out and new bearings and brushes.
I like the old screw on cover for the steel cooling intake tin. But its 6V technically. I have tried to line up a 12V air intake tin for comparison and cant see why it wouldn't be able to keep the 6V...
If not possible let me know.
I also have a small diameter 12v Gen I can cobble in if need be. Hate to use that cause they are good money these days. Money I could put elsewhere. _________________ 68 BUS
83 JETTA TURBO DIESEL
83 2dr JETTA 16V
81 Turbo Diesel Jabbit |
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ataraxia Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010 Posts: 4504 Location: Illinois
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Posted: Tue May 18, 2021 5:51 am Post subject: Re: 63 Notchback Barn Find Revival |
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I'm in the middle of replacing the entire wire harness on my car - I was having issues with various new electrical components that I couldn't resolve. The answer was clear when I pulled the harness as a last resort - several old cracked wires.
The fan shroud and the pulley shroud are 'voltage specific' in that the 6v generator is smaller in diameter than the 12v. If you convert to 12v - you can either get a rewound 12v gen in the 6v housing or swap both the fan shroud and the pulley shroud to the later 12v size.
An easy way to use the bolt on top (I prefer those as well) on the 12v pulley shroud is to remove the two clip nubs and drill three holes for the bolt on top. Some careful work there and 95% of people won't notice. I saved a NOS bolt on top for this very modification.
If you're not dead set on being 100% stock - there's an IMI starter that's self-supporting (no bushing needed) and you can change the pinion gear to properly engage the 6v flywheel. If you go this route - let me know and I'll send you the pinion gear for the cost of postage. I originally went this route but sold that engine and my engine has a 12v flywheel now. The pinion gear is very easy to change. |
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vwpieces Samba Member
Joined: March 23, 2005 Posts: 345 Location: UpHill BothWays, PA
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Posted: Tue May 18, 2021 11:40 am Post subject: Re: 63 Notchback Barn Find Revival |
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Not dead set on 100% stock. I will do the best I can but there will be dual 32 PDSIT, 12V etc.
I have the complete 12 fan and shroud, tin etc. Looked like the bolt on top cover would fit the 12V pulley tin too. I need to get that 12V one, blasted and painted up.
Thanks for the offer on the IMI gear and all the info so far. I will look into it, but I have a stack of 6V starters and I've run them on 12v in a few cars and that's a no money route.
What wiring harness did you end up going with? I saw a few options with full or partials out there and I have not looked into it at all past browsing. CIP1 and ISP both offer them, not sure on other sources or even what to exactly buy for an early push button Notch.
Buddy gave me some 155 tires (3). 2 used older Michelin X and a new but mounted before Verdestine 155sr15 82S. Only needed to buy one new matching Verdestine 82S. Tires are all mounted and balanced. Rim lips cleaned and painted to assure seal, new stems too. I go Old School DIY tire mounting and balancing. Old Horrible freight manual tire changer with a DIY adapter for wide 5. And my M-60 bubble balancer also with the adapter for wide 5.
A few other goodies came in yesterday. Buddy in the South West sent me a Minty rear subframe front plate. And another buddy send me the needed rod bearing to get moving on the engine build.
Visiting friends and raiding their Parts Hoard. That hubcap is too nice for this car... And that NOS rocker trim strip.
_________________ 68 BUS
83 JETTA TURBO DIESEL
83 2dr JETTA 16V
81 Turbo Diesel Jabbit |
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ataraxia Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010 Posts: 4504 Location: Illinois
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Posted: Tue May 18, 2021 2:50 pm Post subject: Re: 63 Notchback Barn Find Revival |
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I'm using the ISP West wiring harness.
https://vwispwest.com/type-3-wiring-harness-311971011/
I removed every wire from the car - checked them and only put them back if I didn't have the replacement in the wiring kit and it was a good wire. All of the grommets are new. I upgraded to a 12 slot fuse box. I've got a lot of other modifications on my car - all performance or safety related. The idea is to modernize while keeping the car looking as stock as possible. Interior is 100% stock but with 3 point seat belts, exterior is stock with the exception of radial tires.
Underneath the car and under the dash are a completely different story though. |
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vwpieces Samba Member
Joined: March 23, 2005 Posts: 345 Location: UpHill BothWays, PA
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Posted: Tue May 18, 2021 4:02 pm Post subject: Re: 63 Notchback Barn Find Revival |
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Checked on some of your created posts, nice work.
I would have went with disc conversion route but I was very fortunate to be able to source all the stock original brake parts. And I was able to source it all at reasonable prices. Having part numbers, parts books, OEM numbers and aftermarket books in the library helped the Google-Foo in searches. ATE Numbers are wacky and there are a lot of parts out there that are not able to be identified by most. Also found your SWF PN post, good stuff. I'll be cobbling the 12V motor to the early parts to keep it looking stock. But not there yet... only an idea. Have acquired a couple T3 12V wiper assys.
Thanks again on the Harness link. I already have too much money and tools into being able to make or repair almost any VW harness. But need to bite the bullet this time, on this one.
Also Have some spare fuse boxes for my 68 bus... IIRC they are same as T3 _________________ 68 BUS
83 JETTA TURBO DIESEL
83 2dr JETTA 16V
81 Turbo Diesel Jabbit |
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ibjack Samba Member
Joined: February 06, 2002 Posts: 2105 Location: Imperial Beach CA
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Posted: Tue May 18, 2021 9:48 pm Post subject: Re: 63 Notchback Barn Find Revival |
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just a heads up, the early engine bays are narrow compared to the later versions. You will need to cut the engine bay (not recommended) or cut the engine tin to fit dual carbs in to the engine bay. I believe that the carbs will need to be installed after the engine is in place _________________ '68 Lotus White T34 automatic sunroof
'64 Manila Yellow T34
'65 Sea Blue Square Panel
the1500club.com
Shop Lacky at the T3/34 Factory, https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100094313902074 |
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vwpieces Samba Member
Joined: March 23, 2005 Posts: 345 Location: UpHill BothWays, PA
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Posted: Tue May 18, 2021 11:19 pm Post subject: Re: 63 Notchback Barn Find Revival |
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ibjack wrote: |
just a heads up, the early engine bays are narrow compared to the later versions. You will need to cut the engine bay (not recommended) or cut the engine tin to fit dual carbs in to the engine bay. I believe that the carbs will need to be installed after the engine is in place |
OUCH
That News Hurts, but thanks. Would hurt a lot worse later on to figure that out myself. And I see what you mean, have a set of later SP tins here and the shelves are longer to the outer sides of bay. I need tins too. Looking like I'll need to cut the good shelves off the early ones and weld to the later tops. Tops of my original cooling tins are shot from the meecez.
Also really didnt want to dig into the original PHN carb. Stuck butterfly and then the Schmoo.
plus I just spent 72 bux on 2 PDSIT kits. Ah well. running them on the 68 bus 1600 SP so they will get used eventually. Just about finished up the rebuild on the pair of 32 PDSITs. _________________ 68 BUS
83 JETTA TURBO DIESEL
83 2dr JETTA 16V
81 Turbo Diesel Jabbit |
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vwpieces Samba Member
Joined: March 23, 2005 Posts: 345 Location: UpHill BothWays, PA
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Big Bill Samba Member
Joined: June 21, 2005 Posts: 1782 Location: Santa Rosa, Ca
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Posted: Wed May 19, 2021 7:05 am Post subject: Re: 63 Notchback Barn Find Revival |
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I am not familiar with this type of carb. but 40 looks like the needle valve (probably the wrong name) that hangs off the floats to open and or close the fuel flow to the fuel bowl. Maybe?? |
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vwpieces Samba Member
Joined: March 23, 2005 Posts: 345 Location: UpHill BothWays, PA
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Posted: Wed May 19, 2021 9:17 am Post subject: Re: 63 Notchback Barn Find Revival |
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Its a tapered pin, part number 311 129 443, not the needle valve per say. I looked and conclude it was not there before I opened it. Even pics above don't show it as it should possibly be able to bee seen. Pics with float installed were taken right after opening it.
Found a thread on another forum bout a guy missing one in his carb and it didn't run right... He ended up making one... There are a couple pics of the pin he made and even a dimensional drawing. I can't make that.
http://www.vwtype3and4club.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12496
Anyone got a crapped out carb willing to sell? or just a tapered pin. _________________ 68 BUS
83 JETTA TURBO DIESEL
83 2dr JETTA 16V
81 Turbo Diesel Jabbit |
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ataraxia Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010 Posts: 4504 Location: Illinois
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Posted: Wed May 19, 2021 12:16 pm Post subject: Re: 63 Notchback Barn Find Revival |
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ibjack wrote: |
just a heads up, the early engine bays are narrow compared to the later versions. You will need to cut the engine bay (not recommended) or cut the engine tin to fit dual carbs in to the engine bay. I believe that the carbs will need to be installed after the engine is in place |
There's one dude in this forum that knows how to get the PDSIT carbs into a smaller early engine bay - can't for the life of me find the thread or post. It looked like a snug fit and required some minor modifications to the carbs - not the car, IIRC. |
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