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Clara 
Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2003
Posts: 12401
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 Posted: Wed May 19, 2021 9:01 am Post subject: Re: is this a sand seal and can I remove it |
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Had oil start puking out the crank pulley area of my red bus maybe 15 years ago. It slung oil in a clear line on the roof of the engine bay. Everything in line with the pulley was oily...
Removed the pulley, cleaned the snout and the grooves, and re-installed it.
Stopped the problem, even though it didn't look dirty.
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pyrOman
Fire Master
Joined: July 21, 2003
Posts: 12409
Location: Over 2002 posts deleted!
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| Posted: Wed May 19, 2021 9:27 am Post subject: Re: is this a sand seal and can I remove it |
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| 74 Thing wrote: |
| You need to punch out the woodruff key then get out the spacer if going to a stock pulley with the grooves. |
That key is pressed in. Even if you manage to pry it out without mangling anything else, you probably won’t be able to install it back in.
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TheVintageVw
Samba Member
Joined: July 19, 2004
Posts: 654
Location: Porter Ranch California
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| Posted: Wed May 19, 2021 9:39 am Post subject: Re: is this a sand seal and can I remove it |
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| Clara wrote: |
Had oil start puking out the crank pulley area of my red bus maybe 15 years ago. It slung oil in a clear line on the roof of the engine bay. Everything in line with the pulley was oily...
Removed the pulley, cleaned the snout and the grooves, and re-installed it.
Stopped the problem, even though it didn't look dirty. |
its amazing how far that oil can go. I first noticed it on the engine lid. Had some tiny oil stains. Confused at first but it all made sense soon after. |
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Clara
Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2003
Posts: 12401
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| Posted: Wed May 19, 2021 12:33 pm Post subject: Re: is this a sand seal and can I remove it |
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| TheVintageVw wrote: |
| Clara wrote: |
Had oil start puking out the crank pulley area of my red bus maybe 15 years ago. It slung oil in a clear line on the roof of the engine bay. Everything in line with the pulley was oily...
Removed the pulley, cleaned the snout and the grooves, and re-installed it.
Stopped the problem, even though it didn't look dirty. |
its amazing how far that oil can go. I first noticed it on the engine lid. Had some tiny oil stains. Confused at first but it all made sense soon after. |
The engine compartment was just like a wet rag had been spun around in it.
This was a bus I had been driving regularly, and the engine compartment had previously stayed clean.
and even though the snout didn't look dirty to me, after cleaning it it stayed clean again. Some microscopic grime was the problem.
An odd thing, on a different bus, drove it home 700 miles after buying it, and the engine compartment stayed clean. Stripped it to add the missing tin, and it turned out that it had a sand seal pulley but NO sand seal in the case, so there was a big gap between case and pulley. But no oily mess. Oil level stayed ok. Go figure ???
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74 Thing
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Joined: September 02, 2004
Posts: 7393
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| Posted: Wed May 19, 2021 12:52 pm Post subject: Re: is this a sand seal and can I remove it |
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| pyrOman wrote: |
| 74 Thing wrote: |
| You need to punch out the woodruff key then get out the spacer if going to a stock pulley with the grooves. |
That key is pressed in. Even if you manage to pry it out without mangling anything else, you probably won’t be able to install it back in. |
The woodruff key is not "pressed" in. |
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pyrOman
Fire Master
Joined: July 21, 2003
Posts: 12409
Location: Over 2002 posts deleted!
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| Posted: Wed May 19, 2021 6:30 pm Post subject: Re: is this a sand seal and can I remove it |
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| 74 Thing wrote: |
| pyrOman wrote: |
| 74 Thing wrote: |
| You need to punch out the woodruff key then get out the spacer if going to a stock pulley with the grooves. |
That key is pressed in. Even if you manage to pry it out without mangling anything else, you probably won’t be able to install it back in. |
The woodruff key is not "pressed" in. |
You go ahead and and hammer it out, then try to install it back without splitting the case. Let us know how it turns out. 
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busdaddy
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Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51153
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Wed May 19, 2021 6:41 pm Post subject: Re: is this a sand seal and can I remove it |
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| pyrOman wrote: |
| 74 Thing wrote: |
| pyrOman wrote: |
| 74 Thing wrote: |
| You need to punch out the woodruff key then get out the spacer if going to a stock pulley with the grooves. |
That key is pressed in. Even if you manage to pry it out without mangling anything else, you probably won’t be able to install it back in. |
The woodruff key is not "pressed" in. |
You go ahead and and hammer it out, then try to install it back without splitting the case. Let us know how it turns out. |
It's not impossible, but it would fall under the "slightly advanced" category of job descriptions. With care and perseverance almost anyone could pull it off.
The next question is there a spacer under the generator pulley too?, better kits include one, although not everyone is smart enough to use it.
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74 Thing
Samba Member
Joined: September 02, 2004
Posts: 7393
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| Posted: Wed May 19, 2021 8:43 pm Post subject: Re: is this a sand seal and can I remove it |
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| pyrOman wrote: |
| 74 Thing wrote: |
| pyrOman wrote: |
| 74 Thing wrote: |
| You need to punch out the woodruff key then get out the spacer if going to a stock pulley with the grooves. |
That key is pressed in. Even if you manage to pry it out without mangling anything else, you probably won’t be able to install it back in. |
The woodruff key is not "pressed" in. |
You go ahead and and hammer it out, then try to install it back without splitting the case. Let us know how it turns out. :? |
I have. Use a punch on the corner and up it goes and out it comes. Do the same. Do you press on the woodruff key in your alternator too? WTH |
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TheVintageVw
Samba Member
Joined: July 19, 2004
Posts: 654
Location: Porter Ranch California
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| Posted: Sun May 23, 2021 8:26 am Post subject: Re: is this a sand seal and can I remove it |
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I used a magnet and a small flat head. Came right out without much effort.
Put on a new OEM D pulley and it twisted my belt. Ordering a new belt and will need to mess with the shims. It has 4 shims between the pulley halves with the aftermarket pulley. |
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TheVintageVw
Samba Member
Joined: July 19, 2004
Posts: 654
Location: Porter Ranch California
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| Posted: Sun May 30, 2021 10:25 am Post subject: Re: is this a sand seal and can I remove it |
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Finished up the oem pulley, plumbed a hose to the carb for blow by, new belt. Got it all running and well you guessed it. Oil! So now what? Go back to a new sand seal? I think thats basically my only option at this point.
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51153
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Sun May 30, 2021 10:39 am Post subject: Re: is this a sand seal and can I remove it |
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If the breather in the pic from your gallery below is still on there that's your problem.
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MrWhoopee
Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2005
Posts: 177
Location: Shingletown, CA
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| Posted: Sun May 30, 2021 10:40 am Post subject: Re: is this a sand seal and can I remove it |
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| TheVintageVw wrote: |
Finished up the oem pulley, plumbed a hose to the carb for blow by, new belt. Got it all running and well you guessed it. Oil! So now what? Go back to a new sand seal? I think thats basically my only option at this point.
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No surprise, someone went to the trouble of installing the sand seal for a reason.
I've been chasing this same problem for a ridiculously long time with numerous different breather configurations. I've succeeded in reducing the amount of oil, but haven't found the secret yet. I have hoses to both carbs from separate ports and filter vents on both valve covers. I've just replaced the stock filler cap on my CB breather with a threaded 1-1/4" diameter tube filled with S/S scrubber pad. We'll see....
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TheVintageVw
Samba Member
Joined: July 19, 2004
Posts: 654
Location: Porter Ranch California
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| Posted: Sun May 30, 2021 10:44 am Post subject: Re: is this a sand seal and can I remove it |
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| busdaddy wrote: |
If the breather in the pic from your gallery below is still on there that's your problem.
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It’s not, ive changed that out. It goes to the carb. |
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EmpiGT
Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2005
Posts: 2597
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| Posted: Sun May 30, 2021 10:51 am Post subject: Re: is this a sand seal and can I remove it |
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| May be time for set of piston rings. Have you ran a compression test? You may have way too much blow-by. |
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51153
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Sun May 30, 2021 10:53 am Post subject: Re: is this a sand seal and can I remove it |
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But it's still got that tiny restrictive fitting and elbow on it I'll bet, and when it goes to the carb is it constantly sloping upwards with no low spots for oil to collect in the hose?
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Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
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TheVintageVw
Samba Member
Joined: July 19, 2004
Posts: 654
Location: Porter Ranch California
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| Posted: Sun May 30, 2021 11:17 am Post subject: Re: is this a sand seal and can I remove it |
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| Haven’t ran a compression test but that will be next. Engine run wells so we’ll see. |
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TheVintageVw
Samba Member
Joined: July 19, 2004
Posts: 654
Location: Porter Ranch California
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| Posted: Sun May 30, 2021 11:54 am Post subject: Re: is this a sand seal and can I remove it |
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| busdaddy wrote: |
| But it's still got that tiny restrictive fitting and elbow on it I'll bet, and when it goes to the carb is it constantly sloping upwards with no low spots for oil to collect in the hose? |
Right no place in the hose to collect. This leak occurred while the car was idling. I did give it a couple rev’s but never driven under load. So I dont know if this is really a blow by issue at this point. |
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busdaddy
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Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51153
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Sun May 30, 2021 12:17 pm Post subject: Re: is this a sand seal and can I remove it |
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Good to hear you got the sloped part figured out, but the inner holes in those fittings are smaller than a stock breather, opening it up for a bigger size elbow and hose can't hurt.
Clean it up and take the oil cap off, put a sock over the end to catch any spittle and repeat the driveway test to see if it's still leaking.
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Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
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TheVintageVw
Samba Member
Joined: July 19, 2004
Posts: 654
Location: Porter Ranch California
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| Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 5:08 pm Post subject: Re: is this a sand seal and can I remove it |
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| busdaddy wrote: |
Good to hear you got the sloped part figured out, but the inner holes in those fittings are smaller than a stock breather, opening it up for a bigger size elbow and hose can't hurt.
Clean it up and take the oil cap off, put a sock over the end to catch any spittle and repeat the driveway test to see if it's still leaking. |
repeated the test with a rag zip tied to the oil filler and almost no oil residue. So I think you're onto something. Pressure! Now the million dollar question, how do I relieve some of this pressure? |
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51153
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 5:31 pm Post subject: Re: is this a sand seal and can I remove it |
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| TheVintageVw wrote: |
| busdaddy wrote: |
Good to hear you got the sloped part figured out, but the inner holes in those fittings are smaller than a stock breather, opening it up for a bigger size elbow and hose can't hurt.
Clean it up and take the oil cap off, put a sock over the end to catch any spittle and repeat the driveway test to see if it's still leaking. |
repeated the test with a rag zip tied to the oil filler and almost no oil residue. So I think you're onto something. Pressure! Now the million dollar question, how do I relieve some of this pressure? |
Bigger fittings and hoses, it's trying to vent all those gases through a teeny tiny hole and hose, you might have to go as big as 5/8".
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Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
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