Changing axles on an 89 auto

[tbd]

Finally getting around to fixing the torn boots that came with the van. In this case that means swapping the old axles with new axle assemblies from GoWesty. I could have just pulled the axles and re-greased the CVs but I figured that in the process of doing that I would find issues with the old CVs and end up in a cycle of clean and order. The van is our vehicle for any time we need to move more than 2 people so it can't be down for that long, other car is a SmartCar. Also since GoWesty is not doing core charges on axles I can clean the old ones up and make them into backups.

I currently have 1 axle off, took 2 12mm 12 point sockets to get it off. After the fist allen bolt stripped I went to the hardware store and bought 3 sockets and 2 more H6 allen bolt sockets. The edges of the Cresent brand H6 I was using were visibly rounding off after the second bolt stripped. Thank you Samba for 12 point socket trick, works great! (yes, I was tapping the H6 into the bolt heads with a hammer.) If I need a fourth 12 point I'll have to clear one of the other sockets, my vise is in the basement and this is a messy job that shouldn't be spread to door knobs.

At this point I'm debating changing the drive flange seals. Both sides are leaking but not flinging oil all over the place. The last van I did this on had covered the transmission and underside of the body with oil due to leaking flange seals, maybe this is some other seal?

I did find the breather vents for the transmission, again thanks to the Samba. I'm including a picture just in case somebody else goes looking.

The red arrows point to the breather ports on the top of the transmission. They can be seen and accessed from the engine hatch. My near one had enough gunk around it that the little metal cap would not move, the other one wiggled a little but after cleaning around them they spin and move up and down.

So should I just clean off the leakage, install the axles, and see if they continue to leak? Or should I replace the drive flange seals? Or is it some other seal in that area, I seem to recall that the Bentley showed a large o-ring in the same vicinity that looked like a larger job than the flange seals.
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1989 Wolfsburg Weekender (Holda) 2.1 WBX

[MarkWard]

You can’t change the seal with the axels installed, so now would be the time. The O rings are less likely to leak. The flanges do wear where the seal lip seats. There is a Speedi Sleeve for renewing that surface. There’s a thread regarding them. If you can’t have the van down, maybe best to not deal with the seals. Take the time instead to change the fluid and wash the case. CVS will be much easier to drop next time.
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☮️

[djkeev]

Putting on new axles for torn boot repair may be short sighted.

If I recall they are selling the crap EMPI axles.

You may end up tossing high quality OEM joints for short lived new ones.

I'd clean my joints and if serviceable put on the VW Tiquan boots.

Dave
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[Wildthings]

Make sure you are using the correct adapter to fit your bolts. If you try to remove a triple square bolt with an allen adapter you are very likely to strip something. When you go back together preferably you want the heads on all your bolts to match, and since the 8mm triple squares can handle more torque that seems to be the way to go to me. Before trying to remove them, I clean the bolt heads with a small flat blade screwdriver and then blow them out with brakecleaner.

A 3-4" long adapter will let you get a straighter shot at the bolt heads than a shorter adapter.

When going back together you want the mating surfaces clean and if you for some reason marred the surfaces you want to touch them up with a file or a Dremel. This is one location where using a torque wrench is a major benefit, the specified torque is 33 ft*lbs.

[CanStan]

As mentioned, do the flange seals while you're at it. They aren't that difficult at all, and there's no time like the present. You're 98% of the way there now compared to pulling everything apart a month from now. And the seals are cheap. If they continue to leak into the boots, the gear oil will wash all of the grease off the CV assembly and cause wear. You'll know there's a problem when you pull the axle off the trans and sludge and muck dump all over the floor.

What makes me nervous is that you are planning to go through half a dozen Allen sockets to get these out. I've removed some pretty janky CV bolts over the years, and can't say I've ever destroyed a socket. Double check you're using the right style (triple star / 12 point vs allen head) and if that's correct, double check the size is correct. Use a pick to clean the bolt heads out nicely and hammer the socket and extension into place. Don't be afraid to give it more than a light tap to seat it tightly.

I also agree with the other comments about not necessarily replacing the complete axle assemblies due to ripped boots. I know there have been some anomalies posted in these forums about EMPI axles lasting a long time. But like most others, the one time I took the easy way out, I was stranded on the side of the road 150 miles later when one of them grenaded. Chances are really good that with some cleaning, greasing, and new boots, your originals will outlive you and your van. It's a messy job, but less messy if you have or invest in a cheap parts washer. But I'm one of those sick people who actually really enjoys redoing CV's. Puttering along leisurely with a beer or 2, it should only take 30 mins per joint, or 2 hours to disassemble, clean, inspect, and reassemble both axles. Just stock up on Bounty first. It's a messy job

[Wildthings]

[bobbyblack]

[tbd]

Thanks for the comments.

As pointed out in the initial post this van is used often as the only other vehicle we have holds 2 people. There are multiple reasons for swapping axles rather than repacking the current CVs.

1. I have no idea how long these boots have been open to the world. The CVs could already be on the brink of failure. The grease on the transmission side was more like thick oil than grease although both ends of the old axle fell apart just as I got it out from under the van. Fortunately I was able to keep the balls together with the races into their own plastic baggies.
2. If after cleaning any of the CVs need replacing, the van is offline for that much longer while waiting for parts.
3. I've done this before with EMPI axles back when GoWesty had a core charge on them, those axles were fine after 20K miles when I sold that van.
4. Nobody can guarantee that any particular CV joint won't fail as soon as power is put to it. That why it is MTBF, some go at 0, some never go. Boots on the other hand, I always seem to acquire with torn boots and sell with whole boots.
5. Most important, I can clean, inspect, refresh(?) the old CVs without the pressure of needing to have the van back on the road. Then if I really feel twitchy I can pack the the old axles if I'm headed out of town.

I did replace the drive flange seal today so I could see if there was any wear as suggested by MarkWard. Turns out that the seal, driver's side, had either been installed wrong or had been pushed out due to high case pressure. It was sitting at the outer edge of the bore rather than against the stop further in, took almost no effort to remove. I had forgotten how easy they are to change on the auto trans, one bolt, no clip, no cap. However I thought I was going to strip out the flange bolt, another 6mm allen head, pretty sure it was put in with more than 18 ft/lbs. I did hammer the socket into the bolt, on the next one I think I'm going to spray the bolt head with brake cleaner, maybe the heads were too lubricated.

Before I do the passenger side, need the van tomorrow, I'm taking one of the old CV bolts to an import parts store and checking out their 6mm allen sockets. On the previous van I took out all the bolts, replaced with triple square, and never stripped out a bolt. It was a rarely washed WI van from a relative, everything was rusty. The current van is a HI/CA van with not much rust.

And yes, I am replacing the allen CV bolts with triple square, wish there was a triple square flange bolt, I am feeling pretty twitchy about these allen bolts.
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1989 Wolfsburg Weekender (Holda) 2.1 WBX

[tbd]

[Wildthings]

[tbd]

Passenger axle CV bolts came out with no problems. While the boots were torn on this side as well they had not lost a lot of grease. When I took out the drive flange bolt I think I found the problem with the CV bolts from the drivers side. A previous repair went a little gorilla on the bolts given the condition of the drive flange bolt.

It is just a bit chewed up.

Before I took this bolt out I was worried about it as I didn't have a spare. It was more wiggly(?) that I felt comfortable with so I used a stripped CV bolt to find a way to tighten up the fit. Best solution I found was to wrap the allen socket in a piece of blue shop towel, put it gently into the bolt head, tap it tight and go. The flange bolt spun right out, no stripping, took much less pressure than the driver's side bolt.

I used the same towel setup going back in and it torqued right up. I did have to dig out some towel after the bolt was in but that wasn't too difficult. Maybe this is a case of just thinking something worked when it would have worked without the towel, I don't know. I do know that I had to work the socket out of the bolt head after each operation so it got pretty tight with the towel.

So both axles replaced, new drive flange seals, new triple square bolts, cleaned up breather ports. Now it's time to clean up the old CVs and replace the valve cover gaskets.
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1989 Wolfsburg Weekender (Holda) 2.1 WBX

[mikemtnbike]

I was surprised to find nice triple square CV bolts at my local NAPA recently when I had some rounded out allens to replace. Just saying, never hurts to look, kept my job moving forward.
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1991 Vanagon GL 2.1 AT Westfauxlia. "Frankie" Totaled https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=764510&highlight=carnage
1995 Eurovan Camper "Marzivan"
2020 GTI SE manual

[?Waldo?]

[Wildthings]

[?Waldo?]

His post was quite unclear. He said he installed the bolts using paper towel bits to tighten up the fit of the tool and then he also says he installed new triple-square bolts.

[tbd]

The triple square bolts were for the CV joints as per SOP. The messed up bolt is for the passenger side drive flange. A quick search of the usual places resulted in Buslab having the driver's side bolt available but the passenger side is listed as NLA, the bolts are different lengths so are not interchangeable. I will check with a local parts supplier later today otherwise I'll find a better used one somewhere. I would like to have a better bolt available if I ever need to go back in there.

As for swapping the bolt for a better one ASAP, no. There are close to zero mechanical reasons to change the bolt out since it torqued up to spec on the install.
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1989 Wolfsburg Weekender (Holda) 2.1 WBX