Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Open loop at idle Subaru
Page: Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Forum Index -> Vanagon Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
MCM73
Samba Member


Joined: February 20, 2021
Posts: 24
Location: Huntsville, AL
MCM73 is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Open loop at idle Subaru Reply with quote

For what it's worth here's the latest. I bought a wifi OBD2 & downloaded Torque Pro. I like the app for sure. All sensors were spot on & STFT was on the lean side even while driving. I was seeing numbers in upwards of 15 or so. I bought a new fuel pump. It flows a good bit more than stock. I replaced it & while driving saw the STFT numbers right where they are supposed to be. Average was +-3%. Again at idle the number went to around +25-+30 then the same. When it goes into open loop now it will usually die. Not violent but will gently shut off. I can only attribute this to the increased flow. I now notice that at idle the O2 sensors are at 0. The ECM isn't seeing any info & I'm curious as to why. The installation kit is through Smallcar. I feel like this is leaning towards an ECM issue. Anyone know if this is the issue if it can be reflashed or if any company will do it. Thanks!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead


Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16803
Location: sticksville, ct.
skills@eurocarsplus is online now 

PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Open loop at idle Subaru Reply with quote

MCM73 wrote:
Again at idle the number went to around +25-+30 then the same. When it goes into open loop now it will usually die.


ok, you need to wrap your head around a few things....

POSITIVE FUEL TRIM IS ADDING FUEL

WHY is it adding fuel? because it's TOO LEAN

you either have:

a vacuum leak

bad injector(s)

poor fuel quality

and a list a mile long

OR A UNDER REPORTING MAF

if your new fuel pump were an issue it would be PULLING FUEL or a - (negative) fuel trim

MAF cleaners are an absolute joke. never in my 30 years + of auto repair have i seen a cleaner do any good here. ever.

without knowing your EXACT swap (year, model and preferably VIN) we are kind of pissing in the wind here.

what do you mean the o2 show "zero"? zero what? volts, mA? are you sure you are watching o2 control and not heater control?

without being there in person it's hard to say. i would be leaning towards a MAF sensor myself (and this is based on my gut and decades of experience)

what are the MAF reading at idle? should be about 2-7 g/s and linearly raise to 15-25 g/s @ 2500 rpm

this is where a graphing scanner is gold. monitor that and MAF voltage to look for any anomalies.

but...we're jumping ahead here. until you smoke test/verify you have no vacuum leaks you're going to chase this forever.

i don't feel you have a ECU issue at this point
_________________
gprudenciop wrote:

my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese.......
[email protected] wrote:
most VW enthusiasts are stuck in 80's price land.

Jake Raby wrote:
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public.

Brian wrote:
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
MCM73
Samba Member


Joined: February 20, 2021
Posts: 24
Location: Huntsville, AL
MCM73 is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Open loop at idle Subaru Reply with quote

I appreciate the feedback. I actually just replaced the MAF over the weekend. The other one went out. That added to my headache. I'll look at the readings again but I'm pretty sure the MAF data was good. The O2's are both showering zero volts. While driving they switch from .1VDC to .9VDC approximately every 1.5seconds. MAP pressure looked good. I agree with the smoke test. I'll look into that & see where I can get one. I'll text the guy I bought it from & see if he can out me in contact with the owner that did the swap. I really appreciate your time.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
MCM73
Samba Member


Joined: February 20, 2021
Posts: 24
Location: Huntsville, AL
MCM73 is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 8:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Open loop at idle Subaru Reply with quote

I forgot to mention that the fuel trim is Positive.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead


Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16803
Location: sticksville, ct.
skills@eurocarsplus is online now 

PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 8:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Open loop at idle Subaru Reply with quote

so, what you're saying is the o2 go to zero V all the time or when the ECU goes open loop?

please, please PLEASE tell me you got a MAF from the dealer.....i know they want your left nut for one but it's the only way to go.

also, you don't have the green test connectors plugged in do you?

sorry if i come off abrasive, not meant to be that way. i was a diagnostician for a volvo dealer before i went on my own. i just want to make sure the nomenclature is understood as we move forward.

anyway, i'll do my best to work thru this with you.

answer the above and i may have you do a hard reset.
_________________
gprudenciop wrote:

my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese.......
[email protected] wrote:
most VW enthusiasts are stuck in 80's price land.

Jake Raby wrote:
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public.

Brian wrote:
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
wesitarz
Samba Member


Joined: August 20, 2012
Posts: 1477
Location: Victoria,B.C.Canada
wesitarz is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Open loop at idle Subaru Reply with quote

Codes? Is there a note with the open loop on the TorquePro like low temp or deceleration? What's the coolant temp reading on the TorquePro when is goes open loop?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
MCM73
Samba Member


Joined: February 20, 2021
Posts: 24
Location: Huntsville, AL
MCM73 is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 7:38 am    Post subject: Re: Open loop at idle Subaru Reply with quote

I see 0v once at idle & can see positive STFT increase to limit then go to open loop. Unfortunately for me I bought the $100 sensor from AutoZone. I'm not aware of the green test plugs you're referring to. I'll look & see if I can find them. Where would they be. I reached out to the guy I bought the van from to see if he can get better info on the donor car & vin. How does that info help? From what info I've received I believe the guy that did the swap bought the packet from Smallcar that allows you to do the harness conversion yourself. You're not coming off as abrasive. I'm a Heavy Equipment Mechanic so straight talk is the world I live in. I'm learning as I go with this which is good. I'll continue to say how much I appreciate your help & input.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead


Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16803
Location: sticksville, ct.
skills@eurocarsplus is online now 

PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 8:08 am    Post subject: Re: Open loop at idle Subaru Reply with quote

MCM73 wrote:
Unfortunately for me I bought the $100 sensor from AutoZone.


ok, go buy the 300 one from subaru. bring your other one back to AZ with the receipt from subaru. they will give you your money back.

true story

reasonably so-so customer (this is the fool that pumps you for info then try's to DIY it) goes to AZ for their "free code scan" because his CEL is on. they sell him...no joke.... coil, plugs, wires and a crank sensor on a car with 78k on it

it's the dead of winter and this guy does all of this in his driveway. 3 days after all this DIY crap happens....the car wont start.

super long story short....the coil they sold him was such junk that when it got cold the case warped and it lost contact. if i hit it with a heat gun, the car started right up

guess what the 78k outback really needed? a tune up. anyway AZ or any parts house electronics are JUST TRASH.

call your local dealer and get that thing out of there. seriously
_________________
gprudenciop wrote:

my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese.......
[email protected] wrote:
most VW enthusiasts are stuck in 80's price land.

Jake Raby wrote:
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public.

Brian wrote:
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
MCM73
Samba Member


Joined: February 20, 2021
Posts: 24
Location: Huntsville, AL
MCM73 is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:17 am    Post subject: Re: Open loop at idle Subaru Reply with quote

Kind of funny relatable story. I did a tune up shortly after I got it & yes parts were from AZ. My girlfriend & I went to the Florida Keys. On our way back it started running awful. Had to pull off & figure it out. Long story short, the way the coil pack was made caused the plug wires to work themselves off. Damaged the coil pack. Got new wires & returned the wires & warrantied the pack. Yes to your statement that AZ parts can be shit. So what is the difference between OEM & aftermarket? How in your opinion are they different?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead


Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16803
Location: sticksville, ct.
skills@eurocarsplus is online now 

PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 1:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Open loop at idle Subaru Reply with quote

oem electronics in 99.999995% of any application will be far superior in quality. there was a reason your original lasted 20 years.

coming from the dealer world has made me a believer in this. my rule of thumb for my customer base is OEM only if it's electronic or hard to replace...or internal components (timing chain for example)

i have been bitten by aftermarket junk so many times i'd rather find a junk yard and pull off a OE part than use aftermarket.

your coil pack example is a prime reason for this
_________________
gprudenciop wrote:

my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese.......
[email protected] wrote:
most VW enthusiasts are stuck in 80's price land.

Jake Raby wrote:
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public.

Brian wrote:
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
MCM73
Samba Member


Joined: February 20, 2021
Posts: 24
Location: Huntsville, AL
MCM73 is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 3:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Open loop at idle Subaru Reply with quote

From what I understand the previous owner replaced the MAF with a used one. Anyway I just went to Subaru & ordered an OEM one. The thing that makes me nervous is it is going to be $80 after tax. Score for me price wise. I was told by a coworker that MAF sensors have a hz perameter they work off of. Not sure if it's true or not but that cheap aftermarket parts while a replacement may be somewhat internally different. Not sure about any of that but the price of OEM softens the blow if it doesn't work. I'll know next week. I'm spending the weekend in the gulf. No worries looking at the ocean. Thanks again & I'll keep you posted.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
MCM73
Samba Member


Joined: February 20, 2021
Posts: 24
Location: Huntsville, AL
MCM73 is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 3:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Open loop at idle Subaru Reply with quote

From what I understand the previous owner replaced the MAF with a used one. Anyway I just went to Subaru & ordered an OEM one. The thing that makes me nervous is it is going to be $80 after tax. Score for me price wise. I was told by a coworker that MAF sensors have a hz perameter they work off of. Not sure if it's true or not but that cheap aftermarket parts while a replacement may be somewhat internally different. Not sure about any of that but the price of OEM softens the blow if it doesn't work. I'll know next week. I'm spending the weekend in the gulf. No worries looking at the ocean. Thanks again & I'll keep you posted.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead


Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16803
Location: sticksville, ct.
skills@eurocarsplus is online now 

PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 3:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Open loop at idle Subaru Reply with quote

do you know what model your swap was from?

there were 3 different sensors in 99:

22680 AA290

22794 AA000

22680 AA160

and a couple of those are closer to 300 bux retail.
_________________
gprudenciop wrote:

my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese.......
[email protected] wrote:
most VW enthusiasts are stuck in 80's price land.

Jake Raby wrote:
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public.

Brian wrote:
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
MCM73
Samba Member


Joined: February 20, 2021
Posts: 24
Location: Huntsville, AL
MCM73 is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 3:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Open loop at idle Subaru Reply with quote

All I know or have been told is 1999 Forester. I asked the parts guy to double check the price because of that. He confirmed it was $79.68. All I could say was ok. Fingers crossed. I looked at the o2 data again on my way to Subaru. Again right upon stopping both went to zero & STFT went positive.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead


Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16803
Location: sticksville, ct.
skills@eurocarsplus is online now 

PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 8:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Open loop at idle Subaru Reply with quote

then you must be getting the AA000 because dealer list on that is 78.00 from my dealer.
_________________
gprudenciop wrote:

my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese.......
[email protected] wrote:
most VW enthusiasts are stuck in 80's price land.

Jake Raby wrote:
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public.

Brian wrote:
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
MCM73
Samba Member


Joined: February 20, 2021
Posts: 24
Location: Huntsville, AL
MCM73 is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Open loop at idle Subaru Reply with quote

So thankfully the Subaru MAF sensor was only $79. Unfortunately it didn't correct the issue. I will say that so far the transition from closed to open loop is almost unnoticeable. I still see 0.0v readings from the 02 sensors. I'm curious if your belief about OEM 02's is the same as other electronic parts? When I replaced the exhaust system I bought new O2's but I did get them from AZ. I would think that if the O2's were reading .1v or above the ECM would make the corrections & hold, not continue to try to add fuel. Thoughts?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead


Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16803
Location: sticksville, ct.
skills@eurocarsplus is online now 

PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 3:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Open loop at idle Subaru Reply with quote

if you bought anything but bosch or denso i would shitcan them. both bosch and denso were OEM depending on the year/model

we use to joke about walker parts at the dealer "open the box and walker over to the trash can"

not sure what AZ sells other than wax. i have never purchased a part from them

but...we're playing parts darts here and i hate that game. it seems to me that you have not smoke checked or done anything about looking for a vacuum leak. that said, i would for sure get the o2's out of there if they are anything but the ones i mentioned
_________________
gprudenciop wrote:

my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese.......
[email protected] wrote:
most VW enthusiasts are stuck in 80's price land.

Jake Raby wrote:
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public.

Brian wrote:
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
11BC2
Samba Member


Joined: August 27, 2017
Posts: 494
Location: Cool, California
11BC2 is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 3:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Open loop at idle Subaru Reply with quote

What brand AFR are you using?
What is the fuel pressure?
Did you order the MAF via the VIN? 1999 is a bizarre year for Subaru MAFs.

Low pressure smoke is the BEST way to find any vacuum leak.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
MCM73
Samba Member


Joined: February 20, 2021
Posts: 24
Location: Huntsville, AL
MCM73 is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 5:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Open loop at idle Subaru Reply with quote

I'm going to check into smoke next. I'll see what brand of O2's I bought. I just put a new fuel pump on because the old one was very weak. Not sure of actual pressure. I do know that this new pump flows at 57.5gph.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
MCM73
Samba Member


Joined: February 20, 2021
Posts: 24
Location: Huntsville, AL
MCM73 is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 5:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Open loop at idle Subaru Reply with quote

What do you mean regarding the "brand of AFR"?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Vanagon All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page: Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Page 2 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2023, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB
Links to eBay or other vendor sites may be affiliate links where the site receives compensation.