This high spot wont go down!!!

[Chickensoup]

Well it turns out that im half decent at body work! considering the only body working tools i own are a hammer and dolly set, and thats it

I have 1 issue! There is this stupid high spot. I circled it and wrote around it in one of the pictures. I tried shrinking the metal using a heat gun and water in a spray gun and it helped but not enough.

This are started up as a giant pinched dent. Its getting alot better tho.

what should I do??

Also, what technique should i use for smoothing the metal after ive remove every last high spot? It seems like a portable English wheel wheel would work well if that was a thing. Is it?

Thanks





also, i have access to the inner panel,

_________________
-'85 c10 5.3 LS, 222 cam, long tubes, x pipe, 3 inch spin tech's
-'05 B5.5 TDI Wagon 17in sport rims ;EGR + BSM + ASV Delete, Stage-2 Tune, straight pipe
'65 Tourist Delivery Build
'66 RIP
'69 RIP
Hosea 4:6 "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge"

[Braukuche]

I use my stud welder. Hit it with heat and then a blast of air from the compressor. Once it’s tight you can hammer on dolly to flatten it and then touch it with a grinder if there’s a slight high point. If it stretches again, rinse and repeat. Or you can tap it in and fill and save a shit ton of time.
_________________
Go Reds! Smash state!

Retirement is here!
1956 Ghia
1959 SO-23 Westfalia
1960 double cab
1960 Baja Bug
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[challomoner]

I used a shrinker disc to finish a quarter panel on my bug, came up smooth as glass.

Can't find before pic but it had a nasty deep groove and plenty of wrinkles.

[Chickensoup]

hi. sorry about the delay in response.

i dont have a shrinking disc yet but ive been using an electric heat gun to warm the metal and then spraying the metal with room temp water.

do yall think a shrinking disk would work better?

heres where im at now. i still have a few high spots. but not as bad as before.

_________________
-'85 c10 5.3 LS, 222 cam, long tubes, x pipe, 3 inch spin tech's
-'05 B5.5 TDI Wagon 17in sport rims ;EGR + BSM + ASV Delete, Stage-2 Tune, straight pipe
'65 Tourist Delivery Build
'66 RIP
'69 RIP
Hosea 4:6 "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge"

[Tvättbjörn]

Heat gun is no good. The surface you are heating up is too large. On single metal pieces like a hood / door .. I used to use (before I bought a stud-gun) a torch with a VERY Small flame. On a complete body , you have to be very careful when using an open flame. Better to have a second person inside the car to watch for fire. You can heat up just a 3/8" size area , but you need a small flame like the size of a pencil to make it work.

[fredybear]

These bad boys

[Chickensoup]

[modok]

I think you have a TIG welder, you could use that to shrink.
Heat up a spot to glowing and it will bow outward, tap it flat. Very easy. You can overdo it quick. Even just run a bead with no filler across where you want to shrink, it will shrink. Welding warps everything bad. Great if you can make it happen when you want it to happen.

Getting the metal perfectly smooth is beyond me, and really not needed, just get it close enough that no thick areas of filler will be needed.
Sand it ROUGH, apply a coat of marine epoxy and sand it flat. Better than new. I know most use polyester filler or high build primers, and that's fine but... my experience is 50% of it fails or cracks after ten years. So I use epoxy now. They say it is hard to sand... Compared to what? Seems to sand a lot easier than metal. I don't have the time or energy to be doing it again later.

[orwell84]

Hearing and quenching on its own doesn’t do much. It is the blow with the hammer that shrinks the metal as Modok said. Backing up the panel with something like a piece of oak will give you something to squeeze the metal against. It’s like a thudding blow.

[modok]

Good point
People always talk about the quenching like it's a big deal......but I don't think it does anything but let you work faster.
Should work same way a weld shrinks as it cools. No matter if it cools fast or slow.

[modok]

Before I had a torch...a few times I just cut a groove with a thin dremel disk, and welded the groove shut again. Very nice shrink.
BUT.......not very good because MIG welds are hard.

So better to use oxy/acetylene torch or tig. And if you need to use filler metal try to get some extra soft filler metal instead of general purpose.
One guy was using bailing wire......hey, why not? probably smart

[Chickensoup]

thanks for the info guys.

Modok, i do run Tig. should i try moving the gun in a spiral path around the high spot on the lowest setting? Also, are you saying i should tap it down while its still hot? Is this because metal is more maluable when its hot? Sounds like it would work really well. You basically have the same idea as me. Get the body straight enough so that i only have to use a tiny amount or depth of filler. I know how hard epoxy can get. I was doing some body work with the stud gun on a in laws dodge and wire wheeling that stuff took forever. that and you could see really rigid scratch marks from the wheel. epoxy holds up!

orwell, do you think it would be a wise idea to make my own dolly out of a dense wood? i though this quenching the metal stuff was supposed to be the shit

thanks!
_________________
-'85 c10 5.3 LS, 222 cam, long tubes, x pipe, 3 inch spin tech's
-'05 B5.5 TDI Wagon 17in sport rims ;EGR + BSM + ASV Delete, Stage-2 Tune, straight pipe
'65 Tourist Delivery Build
'66 RIP
'69 RIP
Hosea 4:6 "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge"

[modok]

Just heat up a small spot to glowing, and let cool, it will shrink. Then repeat.
Can do a pattern of spots to keep shrinking the area as needed.

metal expands when hot........so if you heat up a single spot.....it can't expand because it's surrounded by cooler metal, nowhere for it to expand into, so either it will shrink, or bow inward or outward.

You might need to tap it flat, but you might not. perhaps it will depend on how big the spot is. Maybe larger spots will "bow up" and need to be tapped flat but smaller ones might just sit there and shrink when they cool.
With some experimentation I'm sure you can find some system that works for you.

I've never tried it with TIG but I'm sure it can work. You would just have even more control than using a oxy/aceteline torch.

[evanfrucht]

[Bulli Klinik]

Shrinking is a straight-forward process. Find the high spot by filing the panel. Heat the high spot cherry red with a torch or even a TIG will work. A propane torch or heat gun will not get an isolated spot on the panel hot enough without heating the surrounding area. Smack the area down with a flat or low crown hammer and let it cool naturally or use a wet rag. I generally use a rag and wipe a circle around the hot spot until cool.

The result is that the metal gets thicker in the once molten spot. If you over shrink a bit, no problem. Stretching is always easier than shrinking. Use your hammer and dolly to put it back into shape. File or sand to reveal the highs and lows then use a slapping file to bring up the very fine low spots, file, repeat until you're happy. I like to spray some Dykem or a mist of black laquer on the panel to make the lows obvious.

Keep in mind that it takes time. Plan on at least an hour per square foot to make it nice. More if you want it perfect.

_________________
I've never met a Bus I didn't like.
Mike K
Bulli Klinik
Colorado Springs

[Chickensoup]

thanks a ton for all the advice given. very helpful. i tried the tig method andit worked however i didnt flatten the tungsten so i did make one pinhole in the metal. nothing i can fix tho. imma order a torch instead tho because the tig tends to leave a poor surface finish with my set up. but the metal absolutely was shrinking which is a plus.

i will post some pics tomorrow

thanks again!
_________________
-'85 c10 5.3 LS, 222 cam, long tubes, x pipe, 3 inch spin tech's
-'05 B5.5 TDI Wagon 17in sport rims ;EGR + BSM + ASV Delete, Stage-2 Tune, straight pipe
'65 Tourist Delivery Build
'66 RIP
'69 RIP
Hosea 4:6 "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge"

[Chickensoup]

The area inside the black is a very shallow but large low spot. Will using a large shrinking disc on the entire area help?

And heres the finish left by the tig. I used some 80 grit and most of it disappeared tho.
_________________
-'85 c10 5.3 LS, 222 cam, long tubes, x pipe, 3 inch spin tech's
-'05 B5.5 TDI Wagon 17in sport rims ;EGR + BSM + ASV Delete, Stage-2 Tune, straight pipe
'65 Tourist Delivery Build
'66 RIP
'69 RIP
Hosea 4:6 "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge"

[Bulli Klinik]

At this point you need to start filing or sanding with a hard block to reveal highs and lows. The hand works well but the file doesn't lie. I've had good luck lifting large low spots with a slapping file on dolly. The idea is create more surface area on the finished side thereby stretching the panel up. File it off and repeat until all the low spot disappears.

You need to understand that shape comes from shrinking or stretching of the metal. You can push it around or you can manipulate the thickness of the material to achieve the shape. Manipulating the thickness is how you get to a nice final finish.

Looks good so far. Flat and near flat panels are the hardest to straighten, especially without oil-canning.
_________________
I've never met a Bus I didn't like.
Mike K
Bulli Klinik
Colorado Springs