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67rustavenger 
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Joined: February 24, 2015
Posts: 9767
Location: Oregon
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 Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2021 1:50 pm Post subject: Re: Engine stumbling badly off idle |
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| 67rustavenger wrote: |
Correct.
Dell Aux vents, cannot be installed upside down. They stand proud of the top of the carbs body, if incorrectly installed.
Then the carb tops will have a rather huge gap when they are in place.
Found out the dumb way!  |
Sorry for the delayed responses guys' I can only read when I a break at work.
Thank you for the help just the same.
Rick, as you can see in my quote above. The Aux vents cannot be installed upside down. Other wise the carbs would leak gas everywhere.
I can drive the car onto the street and quickly drive through the idle circuit. Once I hit transition, the engine falls flat on it's face. There's absolutely no acceleration at all.
There is no discernable richness detected once out of the idle circuit.
Evan, Thank you for your input. I know I tried to help you out. And you are returning the favor. Very kind of you.
Tom, yes the mixture screws were set 3 turns out from the seats before starting the engine. I turned them another 1/2 turn out to see if that made any difference. It didn't.
Throttle plates were set at .003" open after cleaning the carbs in the ultra-sonic cleaner Saturday morning. This was to achieve a good starting idle setting. Once the carbs were installed on the engine.
The pump jets are functioning as expected. I don't have the means to measure the squirt. But can see a good stream when actuating the throttle linkage while looking down the carb throats.
I'll try removing the main stacks and see what the reaction is.
But I'm gonna try swapping coils first. As weird as it seemed to me. This is the quickest way to eliminate the ignition as a source of the problem.
It sounds plausible.
_________________
I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!
There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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mcdragracer
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Joined: December 30, 2007
Posts: 714
Location: Cally
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| Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2021 3:07 pm Post subject: Re: Engine stumbling badly off idle |
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| Sorry what I ment was twisted/ turned 180 degrees where as the delivery hole of the upper aux vent would be on the outer part of the body where the set screw is and would block off the passage and not allow fuel from the main circuit down the throat of the carb it would be unusual I don't think that you would have them like that, I did see that one time on a set of carburetors I did some time ago. |
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mark tucker
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Joined: April 08, 2009
Posts: 23937
Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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| Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2021 4:03 pm Post subject: Re: Engine stumbling badly off idle |
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| dist wires reversed? addvance needing work? too rich? air bypass too far closed and the transfer ports are already uncovered? low voltage?dead coil wire? ignition system? |
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67rustavenger
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Joined: February 24, 2015
Posts: 9767
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2021 5:20 pm Post subject: Re: Engine stumbling badly off idle |
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| mcdragracer wrote: |
| Sorry what I ment was twisted/ turned 180 degrees where as the delivery hole of the upper aux vent would be on the outer part of the body where the set screw is and would block off the passage and not allow fuel from the main circuit down the throat of the carb it would be unusual I don't think that you would have them like that, I did see that one time on a set of carburetors I did some time ago. |
Lol!
Sometimes I feel that dumb. But this is not the case.
I have been working on Dells for a few years now. So I'm not a complete noob. Its just that I have never encountered a set that acted like this. And these 45's were capable of powering the car to 14.4 in the 1/4 in 2019.
They then sat while I changed bearings, cam, and lifters.
To be clear. None of the list of replaced parts are part of the problem.
The engine will idle smoothly.
It just will not accelerate past the idle circuit.
It's close to 100°F outside right now. So I'll wait a bit before trying the coil swap.
_________________
I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!
There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo!
Last edited by 67rustavenger on Tue Jun 01, 2021 5:41 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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67rustavenger
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Joined: February 24, 2015
Posts: 9767
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2021 5:30 pm Post subject: Re: Engine stumbling badly off idle |
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| mark tucker wrote: |
| dist wires reversed? addvance needing work? too rich? air bypass too far closed and the transfer ports are already uncovered? low voltage?dead coil wire? ignition system? |
Wires are in the correct order.
Distributor advances freely.
The only thing that's rich is the idle jets. And the parts suppliers that I purchased all the goods from.
Mixture screws are 3-3.5 turns out from the seats
Throttle plates were set to .003" on the bench. So only the tiniest bit of the lowest progression port is exposed.
Battery is fully charged and the grounds are good.
The HT lead from the coil is in good nick.
Ignition system is currently 010, points, condenser, Magna Spark Dry pack coil. < a suspect part. I'm gonna try a Bosch Blue coil in a little bit. Just to see if that's the issue.
Man that's allot of answers for three lines of questions Lol!
Thanks for asking Mark.
_________________
I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!
There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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67rustavenger
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Joined: February 24, 2015
Posts: 9767
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2021 6:09 pm Post subject: Re: Engine stumbling badly off idle |
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Bad Coil!
Temp installed a Bosch Blue coil. And low and behold. The engine now revs into the mains!
Yeah! WTF?
I have never had a coil go bad like that in all the 50 years of working on these cars.
Onto tuning. Thanks for the input Guy's. It really means a lot to me.
Now back to your regular elephant foot, engine ID, clutch issues. Lol!
_________________
I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!
There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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mark tucker
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Joined: April 08, 2009
Posts: 23937
Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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| Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2021 8:31 pm Post subject: Re: Engine stumbling badly off idle |
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| I ment coil wires reversed.... or the pickup wires reversed...or both. |
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Xevin
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Joined: January 08, 2014
Posts: 7628
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| Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2021 11:58 pm Post subject: Re: Engine stumbling badly off idle |
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| 67rustavenger wrote: |
Bad Coil!
Temp installed a Bosch Blue coil. And low and behold. The engine now revs into the mains!
Yeah! WTF?
I have never had a coil go bad like that in all the 50 years of working on these cars.
Onto tuning. Thanks for the input Guy's. It really means a lot to me.
Now back to your regular elephant foot, engine ID, clutch issues. Lol! |
Not so funny how coil issues can send you down a rabbit hole of fuckity. I told my bro (you know him) about your issues. First thing he said was “Coil” 
The brothers would’ve took care of you at the track when you almost through in the towel. Gots to feel good you sorted it out at home. We all want to see you race. Don’t forget Xaties honey 
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| 67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo!  |
| Clatter wrote: |
| Damn that Xevin... |
| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
I respect Xevin and he's a turd  |
| SGKent wrote: |
| My God! Xevin and I 100% agree |
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APPLEGREENVW
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Joined: November 30, 2003
Posts: 2388
Location: Seekonk,Massachusetts USA
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| Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2021 7:55 pm Post subject: Re: Engine stumbling badly off idle |
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| 67rustavenger wrote: |
Bad Coil!
Temp installed a Bosch Blue coil. And low and behold. The engine now revs into the mains!
Yeah! WTF?
I have never had a coil go bad like that in all the 50 years of working on these cars.
Onto tuning. Thanks for the input Guy's. It really means a lot to me.
Now back to your regular elephant foot, engine ID, clutch issues. Lol! |
Which coil went bad? crane or CB Magna spark coil?
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02/76 Beetle sedan |
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67rustavenger
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Joined: February 24, 2015
Posts: 9767
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 4:23 am Post subject: Re: Engine stumbling badly off idle |
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| APPLEGREENVW wrote: |
| 67rustavenger wrote: |
Bad Coil!
Temp installed a Bosch Blue coil. And low and behold. The engine now revs into the mains!
Yeah! WTF?
I have never had a coil go bad like that in all the 50 years of working on these cars.
Onto tuning. Thanks for the input Guy's. It really means a lot to me.
Now back to your regular elephant foot, engine ID, clutch issues. Lol! |
Which coil went bad? crane or CB Magna spark coil? |
The CB Magna Spark coil is the one that failed.
I haven't investigated the issue with the Crane CDI system.
_________________
I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!
There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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67rustavenger
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Joined: February 24, 2015
Posts: 9767
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 6:30 pm Post subject: Re: Engine stumbling badly off idle |
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Aaaannnd! It still stumbled at the race track today.
Lined up against a 2018 Golf turbo R (something or other). Lights counted down and left the Golf sleeping at the light .123 RT compared to his .400+.
The car leaps off the line. Lay into the throttle and once into transition, It falls flat on it's face. Yeah me!
While 2 years ago the same spec engine did 14.4 in the 1/4. Today was an embarrassing 19.1. Every time I backed off the throttle opening the engine came back to life. As long as I stayed in the idle circuits. It ran crisply. Push my luck and BUWaaaaaaaaaaaa!
Fuck. I bailed on racing with such a poor running car.
What a waste of effort over the last month of getting ready.
_________________
I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!
There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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evanfrucht
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Joined: July 24, 2016
Posts: 2180
Location: Laurel Canyon, CA
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| Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 8:27 pm Post subject: Re: Engine stumbling badly off idle |
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Damn. It could be worse tho. There's always next time and plus you still got a '67 Bug 
So is the coil ruled out as the issue?
Back to carbs?
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VW_Jimbo
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Joined: May 22, 2016
Posts: 9966
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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| Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 10:14 pm Post subject: Re: Engine stumbling badly off idle |
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Maybe something is destroying the coil. I just went through this on the 2127. 3 Blue coils, all did the same, popping thing, out the carbs and exhaust. Picked up a Pertronix coil, problem has disappeared!!!!! Might be worth a shot.
Oh, and check your fuel filter. Sometimes that thing causes higher rpm issues!
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Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
| TDCTDI wrote: |
| Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look. |
| 67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo!  |
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Clatter
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Joined: September 24, 2003
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Location: Santa Cruz
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| Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 10:33 am Post subject: Re: Engine stumbling badly off idle |
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I'd venture to say that once you get a motor assembled, installed and running,
You're about half-way done.
Keep fighting the good fight brother.
I'll offer the random suggestion of checking your grounds.
It's the damn negative side of things that seems to get me..! 
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What’s That Noise?!? |
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67rustavenger
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Joined: February 24, 2015
Posts: 9767
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 12:00 pm Post subject: Re: Engine stumbling badly off idle |
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I'm gonna swap the exhaust from the POS EMPI header. Back to the CSP EVO. It's a much quieter exhaust that won't piss off the neighbors. The EMPI is ok for track racing. But not around town.
Once I get the exhaust done. I'll take a video of the issue. At least that way we can stop the guessing what is going on and hear it ourselves and see the issue taking place.
_________________
I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!
There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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Slow 1200
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Joined: July 02, 2004
Posts: 2105
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| Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 12:18 am Post subject: Re: Engine stumbling badly off idle |
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| are you running points? have you tried a new condenser? |
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Alstrup
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Joined: July 12, 2007
Posts: 7216
Location: Videbaek Denmark
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| Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 1:15 am Post subject: Re: Engine stumbling badly off idle |
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A blue Bosch will not work properly with a Magnaspark. - Or, its actually the other way around. You need a coil with much less resistance IIRC the Magnaspark coil is 1,1 ohm, so you need to go down to at least 1,5 ohm, like a Pertoninx II coil.
A Bosch 022 110 2081 should also work.
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sled
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| Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 6:56 am Post subject: Re: Engine stumbling badly off idle |
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I'm curious, why are you not running the Magnaspark distributor that is designed to be run with that coil? The complete Magnsapark ignition system is definitely superior to a 010 with Bosch blue (or equivalent) coil.
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Alstrup
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Location: Videbaek Denmark
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| Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 7:05 am Post subject: Re: Engine stumbling badly off idle |
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You lost me somewhere back there.
I think we need to recap EXACTLY what parts you are combining with the ignition.
On a second note. Your main airs are 90% certain way too small. 45´s normally like 200 main air´s.
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67rustavenger
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Joined: February 24, 2015
Posts: 9767
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:54 pm Post subject: Re: Engine stumbling badly off idle |
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Since you asked Torben. I'll try to recap.
| Quote: |
45 DRLA's and have cleaned them today, But the issue persists. The engine starts with difficulty and once running. I cannot get past the idle circuit without it acting like it's starving for fuel.
It runs so poorly that it will not idle long enough the set the timing.
Current jetting is,
70 idle. Yes I know this is fat for my setup. They were 57's last time I ran these carbs on this engine, so I am experimenting.
160 main Now 162
180 AC
.2 emulsion tubes
55 pump jets
38mm vents
All the carb presets done per the "Superformance" book.
New gaskets at the manifold bases.
CB hex bar linkage, synced.
I have the CSP center pull linkage that Torben dislikes. But the rods will not clear the dist body. So those cannot be used in the current ignition configuration.
Ignition is a MSD clone dist, Crane Hi6N CDI, Crane LX-92 coil. Spark plug gaps at .040"
Heads are Tims stage II 42I 37E
Webcam 86b cam gear at "0" advance
1.4 Scat rockers
If I manage to get past the idle circuit, the engine responds fairly well. But once back on the idle circuit it's hard to get up in the revs again.
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It's been said here on ts. That most carb issues are, ignition issues, So I kept looking at what I was running.
I swapped to the 010. Because I could not get the case stud that the dist clamp gets mounted to, out of the case. Otherwise I would have used the Magna Spark.
The 010 ran ok but the engine would not rev. So I changed the coil from the CB dry pack to the Bosch Blue coil. This setup appeared to work well together.
The dry pack worked great with every point condenser ignition that I have used it on. 010, 009. It also worked with the Magna Spark. So it was a bit strange that it didn't work well with the 010 this time around.
I can't test the tune in my neighborhood. So I thought that I had fixed the issue. I hadn't.
At the race track. When the light went green. The car leapt off the line, Once I rolled into the carb transition from idle circuit to the mains.
The engine responded like there was either no fuel, or the ignition had stopped working.
When I backed off the throttle pedal, back into the idle circuit. The engine came back to life. But it still would not rev beyond the idle circuit.
So where did I lose you?
_________________
I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!
There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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