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Rusty 65 SC restoration
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Jm13004
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 7:12 am    Post subject: Re: Rusty 65 SC restoration Reply with quote

Beautiful work KB. The detailed pictures on the rear battery tray /fender order of operations will be a big help to others. Mind sharing what welder you're using. I need to make a purchase:)
Thanks
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Kb65single
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 8:26 am    Post subject: Re: Rusty 65 SC restoration Reply with quote

Jm13004 wrote:
Beautiful work KB. The detailed pictures on the rear battery tray /fender order of operations will be a big help to others. Mind sharing what welder you're using. I need to make a purchase:)
Thanks


Millermatic 220 It can stick weld, tig, and mig. On the mig you choose wire size .024 .030 .035, metal gauge 24 thru 3/8" and pull then trigger. Every weld is a good weld if you have clean metal. I wanted to learn tig but this two hand thing is difficult, I can't seem to master it. Worth every penny from a mig standpoint. I use .024 for all sheet metal to 14 gauge. Any thicker I use .030 . If the default settings for what you have chosen don't make you happy you can customize the voltage and wire speed. Nice tool 115volts 20amp circuit. Still working on the tig thing I need lots of practice and maybe some professional guidance.
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Mr Margaret Scratcher
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 9:33 am    Post subject: Re: Rusty 65 SC restoration Reply with quote

Kb65single wrote:
Mr Margaret Scratcher wrote:
Great work!

Quick question - how do you maintain the seam here in between the rear corner and the wheelarch/side panel where you had to weld the repair section in?
Careful use of a cutting disc afterwards?

Kb65single wrote:

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Right at the butt weld in the 90deg bend I weld from the back side. You should get penetration to the outside but it won't be as much as if you started the bead across the seam from the outside. I also have a small Triangular file that I finish that area with. Stay away from the 90deg bend on the outside a couple of mm.


Thanks!
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Jm13004
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 4:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Rusty 65 SC restoration Reply with quote

Thanks for the info KB!
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Kb65single
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2021 1:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Rusty 65 SC restoration Reply with quote

While finishing the repair on the inside of the driver side frame I had to continue to cut out the frame support and and the b-pillar top hat. The best way I found out to do that was to remove things in small pieces.
Used any tool that would fit in the space.
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Removing the rest of the b-pillar top hat was slow going. I finally figured out that if I sectioned it between the humps in the treasure chest floor metal ( without going through the floor metal) I could twist that piece and the spot weld would separate. You can see some scored metal on the treasure chest floor where I touched it with a disk.
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The shinny dots are where the spot welds have separated by rotating the top hat metal.
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Grinding the stitch welds away that connect the bulkhead wall with the flange of the cab floor of the secret spot under the seat.
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When I freed up those welds I was able to remove the bulkhead metal
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The flange was in great shape no rust through anywhere. Had a lot of seam sealer on the inside. I had to remove the flange of the treasure chest floor because of rust but I was able to add that back on later.
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Picture of the secret spot under the front seats.
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Was able to save the end of the support that holds the main load bed beam. That support welds to the b-pillar top hat. I also started to clean up the treasure chest floor.
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Cut away the bad metal and made a replacement flange for the treasure chest floor. The bulkhead metal was really spongy and oil can like it needs helps.
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View from underneath. I had to put a piece of metal in to support my weight while I welded from the top side.
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Difficult area to weld and grind in especially with the spare tire bolt poking you in the head and arm.
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Full weld
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I weld over the spots that I don't get full penetration. Both the top and bottom need to be flush. The top hat gets welded to the bottom of the floor and the top just needs to look finished.
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Finished. The other side of the treasure chest floor looks a little more involved from a rust standpoint. I think I might need some treasure chest floor sections so I can try to save that half of the floor.
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Luckily I have some staring at me just need to cut them out. The rocker on that side was just like the other side, it consisted of bondo fiberglass mesh and not much metal.
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Spot weld removal first and cut along the black line.
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I-beams attack ribs and tear t-shirts
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Donor metal is now available.
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Cut the flange that holds gas tank separation panels. I saved it and will repair and reweld at a future date.
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Kb65single
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2021 9:26 am    Post subject: Re: Rusty 65 SC restoration Reply with quote

The outside of the passenger side frame was in good shape but the inside had rust issues.

The bottom edge on both sides of the frame support and a hole behind the support needed repair.
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Repair piece welded in.
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Finished.
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Rust damage on the driver side of the treasure chest floor was more involved than the pass side. The support for the load bed beam was rusted where it joins the b-pillar top hat and treasure chest floor.
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The rust went into the humps of the treasure chest floor and the full thickness metal dictated where I had to cut to eliminate the rust.
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Took a piece of the passenger side treasure chest donor metal and made some new "ends". I know this picture is terrible but what I wanted to do was cut the 45deg marks, then flatten that metal and bend it down.
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The next couple of pictures will hopefully make that clearer. 45deg marks cut and flattened out.
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Then bent down.
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Welded the 45deg cuts shut.
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Then welded a flange to it.
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Half of the repair end ready.
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Extended the flange to finish the repair.
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Finished cutting back the treasure chest floor metal.
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Welding it in
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Finished. Tried heat / quench method on the bulkhead panel but only made it worse. Will cut it out and replace with a straight piece of sheet metal.
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View from the bottom with the support of the main beam of the load bed that will need to be replaced.
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Now the middle of the treasure chest floor is in good shape. Getting the b-pillar top hat fit and the bottom finishing piece of the bulkhead in will be next.
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Kb65single
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2021 9:06 am    Post subject: Re: Rusty 65 SC restoration Reply with quote

Welding the treasure chest floor repair section was a challenge because of the humps and valleys. I made a copper support that helped out. Its made out of normal household copper water pipe. Cut a short section of the pipe and made a cut lengthwise to open the pipe up and hammered it to the contours of the floor.
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As I stated in one of my previous posts the bulkhead panel was all distorted from the rust moving it around and some of the previous welding on it. It was wavy and oil can like and trying to butt weld another piece to an already distorted piece of metal wouldn't turn out well. I made a few cuts below the reinforcement rib and welded those cuts back together. Since welding is a metal shrinking process it usually tightens up the flaccid panel.

Supported the cut panel with a piece of straight angle iron
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View from the other side.
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It definitely tightened the panel up
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Kb65single
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 1:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Rusty 65 SC restoration Reply with quote

It has been a while since my last post. Sometimes life gets in the way.

Now that I have the front of the middle section of the treasure chest repaired, I need to fit the B-pillar top hat. I had to drill holes for the tubes that hold the emergency brake cables. I made drawings with dimensions for the location of all the tubes that were either welded on the bottom or went through them. I also had to make sure the hole for the shifter linkage was the correct size and location. The Gerson shifter linkage holes were centered properly but were a little small. A Dremel tool with a grinding stone fixed the problem. I was using the old linkage tube as a guide to place the B-pillar top hat since I had no experience restoring a bus. I kept all the I-beam in place until the top hat was fixed in place. After that was welded in, the rest of the I-beams and top hats should be in the correct location if I replace them one at a time and weld them in place.

Holes for emergency brake cables
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Shifter linkage tube slides right in
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Passenger side. Had to bend the flange of the top hat flat in order to get it in but found out later that that is how it should be because the sub rocker gets welded to it in that position.
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Driver side
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Started to fit the bottom of the bulkhead panel that the flange of the treasure chest floor gets welded to. That panel also gets welded to the B-pillar top hat. That panel also gets welded to the flange of the secret spot under the front seats.
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After that it was time for some rustproofing in the right spots
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Started to weld that panel in
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After I had it tacked most of the way I was developing a lot of distortion and had to cut it back off. Then I made another cut in the panel up a lot further than the other cuts I made in that panel to try to shrink it.
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Welded that cut together and tried again, this time I am going to weld the bulkhead panel to the top hat and then butt weld.
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Had a piece of angle iron screwed to the bulkhead panel (see the hex head screws) to keep it straight.
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That worked! it was hard to cut it out and try again but sometimes it's the right thing to do. Did not weld the treasure chest floor to the top hat, need to get the I-beams in and being able to push the floor up makes that job a lot easier.
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Kb65single
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 8:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Rusty 65 SC restoration Reply with quote

After the B-pillar top hat the next parts to fit and install are the I-beams. The Gerson hole for the shifter linkage tube was way smaller than the original tube. The caliper measured 29.53 mm inside the hole.
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The original tube measured 30.29mm
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The thickness of all the metal surrounding the tube made enlarging the opening take quite a while. I was using a Dremel tool and didn't want to go to fast so that might explain it and there are 3 I-beams to enlarge.
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Finished grinding down the welds on the bulkhead panel. Tape stops the metal grindings from getting behind the flange.
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Welded the B-pillar top hat to the frame.
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Marked the location of the I-beams with a sharp scribe.
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Started to remove the I-beams outside of the frame. Had to cut the I-beam in sections lengthwise and across at each valley in the treasure chest floor.
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When I cut lengthwise, I left part of the metal on one side so I could grab a hold of it with a Vice-grip. The other side was cut at the bend leaving a flat piece of metal welded to the floor.
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Grab the part that hangs down and rotate it. The spot weld should break. Sometimes the weld spot will leave a hole in the treasure chest floor sometimes it won't. The holes will just mark your next plug weld when you weld the old floor to the new I-beam.
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Grab the other half (the flat half) and do the same thing.
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chrisflstf
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2022 9:12 am    Post subject: Re: Rusty 65 SC restoration Reply with quote

Glad to see you back at it Very Happy
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Kb65single
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2022 9:13 am    Post subject: Re: Rusty 65 SC restoration Reply with quote

There was a learning curve involved in getting the I-beams out. The I-beam is really two C's spot welded together. When you section the beam length wise you have to leave enough of one side so you can grab a hold of it, but you have to cut far enough up to eliminate the spot welds. The holes for the emergency brake cables were a good reference point. I left the top 1/4 of that hole when I was cutting length wise. Here is an example of the section.
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The tools that sped up the process. I started with a 4 inch disk but then moved to a 5 and 6 inch. The angle grinder is great if you have open space and the pneumatic tool helps in tighter spots. Both are dangerous in the wrong hands and ALWAYS where gloves.
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Don't be afraid to free all up the welds for the other tubes welded on the bottom of the other I-beams it will speed up the process because they will flex and give you more better access.
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When I got my confidence, the process sped up. Section length wise first then cut across.
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Grab the sections with the tab first. Use another pair of vice grips to help with the rotation.
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Eventually the I-beam will be in. Note: I did not find any welds on the treasure chest floor right above the I-beam where the shifter linkage tube is located. Remember I did not weld the treasure chest floor to the b-pillar top hat so the hump in the I-beam (at the shifter linkage tube) could easily pass the frame and the treasure chest floor.
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Kb65single
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2022 10:34 am    Post subject: Re: Rusty 65 SC restoration Reply with quote

chrisflstf wrote:
Glad to see you back at it Very Happy


Thanks. I have been working on the SC but got lazy with posting and the honey dew list was getting dangerously long. I am trying to catch up on the posting so be prepared. Smile
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Kb65single
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2022 11:21 am    Post subject: Re: Rusty 65 SC restoration Reply with quote

One thing I did make that has helped me out when I am butt welding is a hands free copper backer.

Took a piece of 20 guage sheet metal and with the help of a panel flanger made a recess that a piece of copper can fit in.
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Opposite side
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Piece of plumber copper flattened and cut to fit with tabs on either end.
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Cut a slots in the sheet metal. Insert the tabs.
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Then bend the tabs over
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I usually put two triangular magnets on both sides, width wise or length wise to hold it in place. Works great when you need it and if the space is limited one magnet will do.
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Opposite side with copper behind butt weld.
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Kb65single
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2022 3:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Rusty 65 SC restoration Reply with quote

So I finished removing the first I-beam and started thinking (that usually gets me in trouble) about how I am going to sandblast and epoxy prime the metal and when do I do it. I wanted to get as much work done without creating a bunch of areas that would collect and trap sand because it goes everywhere you don't want it. Decided to not weld in the first I-beam but I wanted to get a 2nd I-beam out so the bottom of the treasure chest floor could be blasted and primed.

Got the 2nd I-beam cut up and removed
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Removed the passenger outrigger to find a hole that needed attention
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Found the full thickness metal
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Cut the area out
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Repair tacked in
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Grind and smooth
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While I had the bus tilted the right way, I knew I had a rear driver side repair to do on the inside of the frame. Removed the cross brace to see the damage.
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Mark the cuts
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Cleaned and rustproofed and treated the best I could. Love the weld penetration from the outside repair. I always hope it's there just nice to see it every once and a while.
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Repair piece welded in.
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Kb65single
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2022 7:57 am    Post subject: Re: Rusty 65 SC restoration Reply with quote

Continued to prepare for blasting and priming. Replaced the rusted and half broken tabs that hold the wiring loom.
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The wheel wells will be included in the blast and prime.
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The front driver wheel well had rust through at the front seat rail.
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Cut that area out and will fix it and reweld back in.
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Needed to finish tearing out the rest of the treasure chest floor. Passenger rear near the gas tank opening.
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Wire mesh to support the Bondo.
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Bondo removal in the passenger rear quarter below the gas tank door.
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Now the top and bottom of the treasure chest floor, well wells and frame can get blasted and epoxy primed.
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Kb65single
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2022 3:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Rusty 65 SC restoration Reply with quote

Before the blasting I had to mask off and plug all the holes and hiding spots for sand.
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Found a mobile blasting and painting guy near where I live. It took most of the day to blast and prime. Lucky that my neighbors were moving and didn't mind if I did it in the driveway.
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After the blasting, had to blow off the sand and strip some of the masking and cardboard. Had to sweep up the sand and get the area ready to prime.
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Some pictures of the final prime coat.
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This was the primer that I used
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That was a long day. It took me all the next day to clean up outside.
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Kb65single
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2022 8:11 am    Post subject: Re: Rusty 65 SC restoration Reply with quote

Let the primer cure for a while, then started back on the first I-beam that I previously fit. I wanted to get that first I-beam welded to the frame before I removed the 3rd I-beam or the other top hats. Since I have no experience restoring buses I didn't know if the frame would move or flex. The frame gets wider as it moves to the ass end of the bus and I didn't know if there was any tension on it. I didn't want to start welding the treasure chest floor until I had the last I-beam in because of the hump in it. It was easy to slide the I-beams in with the floor not welded. I used the shifter linkage tube as a guide from side to side and used small hacksaw cuts (on the treasure chest floor) that I made before I removed the old I-beams as a guide from front to back. When fitting each I-beam I also checked the emergency break tubes and made adjustments if needed. Some of the Gerson I-beams have issues. Since they are made by spot welding two C-shaped pieces together some of the holes that the emergency brake tube slide into did not match. It was easier to file the holes on the bench than it was getting in a position to do it underneath.

Had to remove some of the primer before welding.
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Did that on the bottom too
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Put a couple of brushed coats on the top of the I-beam before welding. Marked and got those spots down to bare metal before welding.
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Slide it in. Small hacksaw cuts for I-beam position front and back.
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Welded in place on the frame only. Nice to see some new metal in.
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Kb65single
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Joined: July 24, 2019
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Kb65single is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2022 9:53 am    Post subject: Re: Rusty 65 SC restoration Reply with quote

Now that I have the first I-beam welded to the frame, I felt better about removing the next one.
The next one
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Used the same process as the other two.
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During this I-beam removal an area of the frame had damage.
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Cut out the damage
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Repair section made and welded in.
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Cleaned the small area under the original I-beam and painted rust proofer.
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Now I have three I-beams welded to the frame and I everything ready and prepped to weld the treasure chest floor down.
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chrisflstf
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2022 2:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Rusty 65 SC restoration Reply with quote

Looks like you are over the hump of the worse part. Looks good
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Kb65single
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2022 8:37 am    Post subject: Re: Rusty 65 SC restoration Reply with quote

chrisflstf wrote:
Looks like you are over the hump of the worse part. Looks good


Yes Thanks, It's so nice seeing green metal going in and everything is clean.
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