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Junito11 Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2018 Posts: 17 Location: Delaware
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Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:13 pm Post subject: 1st time engine builder |
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Hello, I would like to know if I will be fine rebuilding a 1679 without doing work to the case ex: decking, case savers, align bore, etc. So far I’m reusing stock crank, stock 1500sp rods, 88mm thick walls, Engle W100 cam, Engle lifters. Will be ordering 90.5 heads when I figure out deck height. So my question is will I be fine using the case as is or is it a must to do machine work. My goal is to build a reliable motor nothing crazy. Thanks. |
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Pruneman99 Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2012 Posts: 5013 Location: Oceanside
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Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:59 pm Post subject: Re: 1st time engine builder |
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Only way to know is to tear it down and measure it and inspect it. Sorry, no other way to answer that question. |
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Junito11 Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2018 Posts: 17 Location: Delaware
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Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:16 am Post subject: Re: 1st time engine builder |
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I cleaned the case twice and std bearings fit tight. I also had the crank mic and rods and all within specs |
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frenchroast Samba Member
Joined: October 13, 2019 Posts: 678
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Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:39 am Post subject: Re: 1st time engine builder |
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Junito11 wrote: |
I cleaned the case twice and std bearings fit tight. I also had the crank mic and rods and all within specs |
I would get case savers at a minimum. |
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Dauz Samba Member
Joined: January 05, 2010 Posts: 1790
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Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 8:50 am Post subject: Re: 1st time engine builder |
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if you run your fingernail across the saddles at any point and it catches, you more than likely should get align bored. |
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Junito11 Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2018 Posts: 17 Location: Delaware
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Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:26 am Post subject: Re: 1st time engine builder |
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I ran my finger nails across the saddles and no catching. I already ordered and check the bearings and they are a tight fit.
I just want to make sure I’ll be fine building it without savers and decking etc |
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evanfrucht Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2016 Posts: 2180 Location: Laurel Canyon, CA
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Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:42 am Post subject: Re: 1st time engine builder |
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It will work but its not exactly reccomended. For longevity case savers have proven themselves to be very effective at what they do. Without them you will need to be much more careful building it, torquing, etc and even then you might have a problem after a while.
Decking the case is also very helpful for getting the cylinders to seal properly without leaks. If you do not deck the case it will eventually start to weep around the barrels, leak oil, dirty up the motor. Decking the case will also make stock deck a height a little tighter which has its own added benefits as far as efficiency and perfomance. _________________ 1967 Bug ( the daily rod )
1964 Fury Wagon ( the pavement shredder ) |
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Brian_e Samba Member
Joined: July 28, 2009 Posts: 3228 Location: Rapid City, SD
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Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:50 am Post subject: Re: 1st time engine builder |
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You will find out you need case savers when you go to tighten the very last two head studs, after you have everything fully cleaned, sealer perfectly applied, the other side head fully torqued and done. Those last studs won't take the torque, and will never tighten up because the threads are pulling out of the soft case.
Then you get to take the entire thing back apart, clean it all, install the case savers, and then do the assembly all over again.
I have found the '67-'70ish 1500cc SP's were the worst at stripping head studs. I have torn down lots engines with ruined threads.
If the case savers are correctly installed, the case doesn't need to be decked. Especially on an 85 bore.
Brian _________________ www.type-emotorsports.com |
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Junito11 Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2018 Posts: 17 Location: Delaware
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Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:53 am Post subject: Re: 1st time engine builder |
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Ok thanks, I’ve reached out to 2 VW shops for pricing and turnaround time on savers, decking align bore and thrust cut |
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Brian_e Samba Member
Joined: July 28, 2009 Posts: 3228 Location: Rapid City, SD
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Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:25 am Post subject: Re: 1st time engine builder |
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And here is where the snowball starts.....
If you are doing all the other work, and the case is getting decked, you might as well have them bore it for 90.5's as well.
All else equal, the 1776cc will be a night and day improvement over a 1679. Build it just as you were, but with the larger cylinders. The cost for them to bore the cylinder holes shouldn't be to much more at this point. The P&C sets cost the same.
I won't build a stock bore engine unless its for something special. Most all used cased NEED to be decked at minimum to get them back to square and even. The increase in displacement for the minimal cost is far to good to pass up.
Brian _________________ www.type-emotorsports.com |
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evanfrucht Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2016 Posts: 2180 Location: Laurel Canyon, CA
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Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:35 am Post subject: Re: 1st time engine builder |
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Brian_e wrote: |
I have found the '67-'70ish 1500cc SP's were the worst at stripping head studs. I have torn down lots engines with ruined threads.
Brian |
Yep, on the first or second top end job it's over. Basically a ticking time bomb.
A also agree you should get it bored out for 90.5's or even thick wall 92's. Don't forget about the heads also. Those will need to be opened up to match whatever cylinders you use. This should be cheap. Boring the case and heads for larger cylinders should really be no more than about $20 for each hole at most, or $160 total.
The other machine work is not that expensive either and I would have it balanced too. Overall you are looking at a few hundred dollars but I think you will find it worth it and be glad you did it.
Also of the bearings fit tight you might not even need an align bore. Maybe just a thrust cut. Maybe it's all in spec, no point doing that for no reason. Hard to say. Ask the machinist you trust. _________________ 1967 Bug ( the daily rod )
1964 Fury Wagon ( the pavement shredder ) |
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Junito11 Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2018 Posts: 17 Location: Delaware
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Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:48 am Post subject: Re: 1st time engine builder |
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I already purchased 88mm thick walls. I will be getting 90.5 heads in the future, I was able to speak to one of the shops and he said definitely get savers. He said they will check to see if I need to have it decked when they get the case. He also said the same thing about align bore. He said to put the crank in only no cam and torque the 6 mains to see if it spins with no issues. If there’s issue then align bore. Also will lmk about thrust cut. Hopefully I can send the case out on Monday and turnaround is about a month. |
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Junito11 Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2018 Posts: 17 Location: Delaware
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Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:12 pm Post subject: Re: 1st time engine builder |
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Ok so I’m being told that my Engle W100 cam will be to much for my stock 64 trans due to the weaker 1st and 2nd gears. Will I be ok or should I install stock camshaft. Thanks |
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buguy Samba Member
Joined: November 17, 2003 Posts: 4915 Location: Port Orange, FL
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Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 7:07 pm Post subject: Re: 1st time engine builder |
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I ran my stock 65 trans for 12 years on a 1600 turbo. The last 2 were at the 30 psi and a Web 163, and it was very powerful. Then i put a mild 2054 turbo in it and it broke the axle. Trans is still fine but i replaced it anyway. I would say your trans will be fine with a W100 cam. |
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Junito11 Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2018 Posts: 17 Location: Delaware
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Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 7:20 pm Post subject: Re: 1st time engine builder |
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Thanks |
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Junito11 Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2018 Posts: 17 Location: Delaware
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Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:39 pm Post subject: Re: 1st time engine builder |
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Another question. Since I’m using Engle W100 in an AK case which is a year 73. They came with dish camshaft and the Engle is flat. Will I be able to use the flat style oil pump in the AK case without issues. |
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Zundfolge1432 Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2004 Posts: 12454
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Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:06 pm Post subject: Re: 1st time engine builder |
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Sure you can use that cam. You’ll want the matching oil pump 😀 |
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Junito11 Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2018 Posts: 17 Location: Delaware
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Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 5:00 am Post subject: Re: 1st time engine builder |
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That’s why I’m asking. To make sure the correct oil pump that goes with the flat cam will work in a later style case. |
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txoval Samba Member
Joined: January 23, 2004 Posts: 3540 Location: The Woodlands, TX
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Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:01 am Post subject: Re: 1st time engine builder |
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Yes it will work |
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Junito11 Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2018 Posts: 17 Location: Delaware
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Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:45 am Post subject: Re: 1st time engine builder |
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Thanks |
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