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67 Engine Removal Thwarted
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will t
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:10 am    Post subject: 67 Engine Removal Thwarted Reply with quote

I recently purchased a 67 Westfalia which was owned for the last 20 years by the same person. Previous to his ownership, the bus was "restored". The restoration included a "BugPack" muffler system, which if the non-original paint scheme and non-original seat coverings weren't scary enough, solidified the notion that the restorers had no idea what they were doing.

Yesterday I tried to remove the engine. I have owned many VW's and never had any trouble doing this, especially in a bus, which are super easy. But when I went to remove the 17mm nut on the driver's side behind the fan shroud, I saw what I think is a "dog house" oil cooler set-up. I have never had this type of fan shroud before, and it rather significantly blocks access to that nut. And when I got in there further I saw that there isn't a nut at all. Instead, there is kind of a round "nut" which the bolt threads into. That round part is fixed. So that says to me that you have to remove the bolt from the other side, meaning you have to reach up high and get the 17mm bolt out from the front side. Other than the fact that this bus is caked with oil sludge, the bolt is rather high up in there, and it doesn't look like it's going to be particularly easy to get a wrench of any kind on it.

Does this set-up sound familiar to anyone? Does any of you have any suggestions as to what to use to get the 17mm bolt out from the front side of the assembly? Is this a normal "dog house" set-up? I'm just not familiar with them other than I have heard the term.

Thank you very much in advance,

Will
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Okie Adam
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:17 am    Post subject: Re: 67 Engine Removal Thwarted Reply with quote

That bung is a very common VW part for engines with doghouse oil coolers. You just got to get up in there and loosen/remove the bolt from the front side. No other way I know.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:49 am    Post subject: Re: 67 Engine Removal Thwarted Reply with quote

Try a socket wrench with a few extensions
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:51 am    Post subject: Re: 67 Engine Removal Thwarted Reply with quote

That's normal. Go to your toolbox get every extension you have and a knuckle and you should be able to get it off in 30 minutes or so. Seriously, 17mm socket > 3" extension > knuckle > 6" extension > ratchet. Pretty sure that's what worked for me with a just a few minutes of concentration. I may have used a longer extension in place the 6". Perhaps there are others that can give advice if I've got it wrong?
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 8:07 am    Post subject: Re: 67 Engine Removal Thwarted Reply with quote

crofty wrote:
Try a socket wrench with a few extensions


Yep, you need about 18" worth of extensions, and a 6 point 17 mm socket will help too.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:23 am    Post subject: Re: 67 Engine Removal Thwarted Reply with quote

crukab wrote:
crofty wrote:
Try a socket wrench with a few extensions


Yep, you need about 18" worth of extensions, and a 6 point 17 mm socket will help too.


Yep, that's exactly what I do also! Best trick ever!
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:40 am    Post subject: Re: 67 Engine Removal Thwarted Reply with quote

From the gallery
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


From this thread
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=642044
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will t
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:00 am    Post subject: Re: 67 Engine Removal Thwarted Reply with quote

Many thanks to you all. I have the tools - not sure why I didn't think to use extensions to go at it from a distance but it makes complete sense.

If I want to change this dog house back to a regular setup am I going to see how when I disassemble it? My goal is to return this bus to stock. I'm guessing I will need a new shroud. And maybe a new oil cooler...

Thanks again to you all

Will
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Who.Me?
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:24 am    Post subject: Re: 67 Engine Removal Thwarted Reply with quote

EverettB wrote:
From the gallery
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From this thread
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=642044


Where are you guys holding the ratchet for you to need that many extensions? In front of the torsion tube?

I can do it with a single extension. I just reach my arm up to where I can reach the clutch arm, like adjusting clutch cable play. From there I can reach the bolt with a ratchet with a single extension.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:31 am    Post subject: Re: 67 Engine Removal Thwarted Reply with quote

will t wrote:
Many thanks to you all. I have the tools - not sure why I didn't think to use extensions to go at it from a distance but it makes complete sense.

If I want to change this dog house back to a regular setup am I going to see how when I disassemble it? My goal is to return this bus to stock. I'm guessing I will need a new shroud. And maybe a new oil cooler...

Thanks again to you all

Will


Keep the doghouse oil cooler set up. it will help keep the oil temp down better that the non dog house and its not visible when looking at the engine if youre concerned about an original apperance.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:51 am    Post subject: Re: 67 Engine Removal Thwarted Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Yep, I use something like that ^^^^^^^ on my 1600 s/p w/ a Dog house, it does not have that "bung", but it still works, just a little harder getting that top bolt in.
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will t
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:58 am    Post subject: Re: 67 Engine Removal Thwarted Reply with quote

widehatch wrote:
will t wrote:
Many thanks to you all. I have the tools - not sure why I didn't think to use extensions to go at it from a distance but it makes complete sense.

If I want to change this dog house back to a regular setup am I going to see how when I disassemble it? My goal is to return this bus to stock. I'm guessing I will need a new shroud. And maybe a new oil cooler...

Thanks again to you all

Will


Keep the doghouse oil cooler set up. it will help keep the oil temp down better that the non dog house and its not visible when looking at the engine if youre concerned about an original apperance.


Good point
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:06 am    Post subject: Re: 67 Engine Removal Thwarted Reply with quote

Who.Me? wrote:


I can do it with a single extension. I just reach my arm up to where I can reach the clutch arm, like adjusting clutch cable play. From there I can reach the bolt with a ratchet with a single extension.


I like this fixed nut. And yes you can reach it quite easily like Andy said.

And yes, please keep that doghouse fan shroud.

That was more or less the only modification (except maybe the missing limiter) I made to the engine and is a good improvement in terms of cooling.

The third cylinder is located on the lee site of the original oil cooler setup ending in thermal critical situations when the engine gets hot. Thatís the reason why no. 3 fails first. The doghouse cooler is mounted with a significant offset allowing more cool air getting to no. 3...

Looking at the engine from the rear wonít let you tell the difference from a stock shroud...
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:41 am    Post subject: Re: 67 Engine Removal Thwarted Reply with quote

You can knock out the round threaded bush from the engine case if you dont want it - they are just a press fit - theyare not that tight, and use a normal bolt/nut combo.
- I prefer reaching around the fan housing from within the engine bay with a 17mm ratchet spanner personally - i find it signifcantly easier, even with Kadrons fitted, I can reach the 2 top nuts relatively easily - you have to do it by feel, and try not to drop your spanner - hahahaha.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:17 am    Post subject: Re: 67 Engine Removal Thwarted Reply with quote

My 1835 did not have the nut-sert style nut until I added it. For me, it was personal preference years ago. I was tired of trying to install the nut and washer while simultaneously trying to prevent my DS carb (dual-carb setup) from latching onto my arm.

So, itís certainly up to you and is more of a preferential thing. It is far leas frustrating to get an extension and remove the bolt from the front, than finger-fucking the loose nut in an Chinese finger trap.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:25 am    Post subject: Re: 67 Engine Removal Thwarted Reply with quote

I have driven hundreds of thousands of miles without that bolt, and I never had any problems related to it. Take it out, and throw it away, it will make things easier in the future.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:35 am    Post subject: Re: 67 Engine Removal Thwarted Reply with quote

Lind wrote:
I have driven hundreds of thousands of miles without that bolt, and I never had any problems related to it. Take it out, and throw it away, it will make things easier in the future.


Best advice yet.
Hopefully whoever put in that 4th bolt used some sort of spacer so the bolt head isnít driven into the recess that exist on pre 71 transaxles. Itís already a PITA to get access to it around the early style clutch cable arm but if the bolt head is driven in all the way it can be a nightmare getting a socket on it.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 9:29 am    Post subject: Re: 67 Engine Removal Thwarted Reply with quote

Braukuche wrote:
Lind wrote:
I have driven hundreds of thousands of miles without that bolt, and I never had any problems related to it. Take it out, and throw it away, it will make things easier in the future.


Best advice yet.
Hopefully whoever put in that 4th bolt used some sort of spacer so the bolt head isnít driven into the recess that exist on pre 71 transaxles. Itís already a PITA to get access to it around the early style clutch cable arm but if the bolt head is driven in all the way it can be a nightmare getting a socket on it.


Replace it with a socket head cap screw (AKA: Allen Bolt) and you will not need to worry about the recess.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:49 pm    Post subject: Re: 67 Engine Removal Thwarted Reply with quote

widehatch wrote:
will t wrote:
Many thanks to you all. I have the tools - not sure why I didn't think to use extensions to go at it from a distance but it makes complete sense.

If I want to change this dog house back to a regular setup am I going to see how when I disassemble it? My goal is to return this bus to stock. I'm guessing I will need a new shroud. And maybe a new oil cooler...

Thanks again to you all

Will


Keep the doghouse oil cooler set up. it will help keep the oil temp down better that the non dog house and its not visible when looking at the engine if youre concerned about an original apperance.


x10, Keep the doghouse your #3 cylinder will thank you. That setup is the pinnacle ACVW setup. Especially if you have a Westy where you plan to take long roadtrips.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:24 pm    Post subject: Re: 67 Engine Removal Thwarted Reply with quote

ToolBox wrote:
Replace it with a socket head cap screw (AKA: Allen Bolt) and you will not need to worry about the recess.

Yep, just like the pic Everett posted. And the added beauty with that arrangement is that once you engage the bit in the hex socket, the tool will stay put and not wobble around and fall off. It'll stay engaged no matter how much fussing and wrestling you do with the ratchet and extensions.
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