Author |
Message |
will t Samba Member
Joined: February 23, 2009 Posts: 179
|
Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:10 am Post subject: 67 Engine Removal Thwarted |
|
|
I recently purchased a 67 Westfalia which was owned for the last 20 years by the same person. Previous to his ownership, the bus was "restored". The restoration included a "BugPack" muffler system, which if the non-original paint scheme and non-original seat coverings weren't scary enough, solidified the notion that the restorers had no idea what they were doing.
Yesterday I tried to remove the engine. I have owned many VW's and never had any trouble doing this, especially in a bus, which are super easy. But when I went to remove the 17mm nut on the driver's side behind the fan shroud, I saw what I think is a "dog house" oil cooler set-up. I have never had this type of fan shroud before, and it rather significantly blocks access to that nut. And when I got in there further I saw that there isn't a nut at all. Instead, there is kind of a round "nut" which the bolt threads into. That round part is fixed. So that says to me that you have to remove the bolt from the other side, meaning you have to reach up high and get the 17mm bolt out from the front side. Other than the fact that this bus is caked with oil sludge, the bolt is rather high up in there, and it doesn't look like it's going to be particularly easy to get a wrench of any kind on it.
Does this set-up sound familiar to anyone? Does any of you have any suggestions as to what to use to get the 17mm bolt out from the front side of the assembly? Is this a normal "dog house" set-up? I'm just not familiar with them other than I have heard the term.
Thank you very much in advance,
Will |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Okie Adam Samba Member
Joined: November 07, 2003 Posts: 1345 Location: OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOklahoma
|
Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:17 am Post subject: Re: 67 Engine Removal Thwarted |
|
|
That bung is a very common VW part for engines with doghouse oil coolers. You just got to get up in there and loosen/remove the bolt from the front side. No other way I know. _________________ Oil Capital Air Cooled
55 Wolfsburg Kombi
60 Walkthrough Kombi
62 Single Cab
66 21window
67 so42
76 Westy
64 Karmann Ghia |
|
Back to top |
|
|
crofty Judas of the North
Joined: August 09, 2000 Posts: 19670 Location: Land of Whine and Phonies
|
Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:49 am Post subject: Re: 67 Engine Removal Thwarted |
|
|
Try a socket wrench with a few extensions _________________ Your Vanagon sucks, Stop waving at me.
HamburgerBrad wrote: |
I slept on crofty's tent once. I passed out drunk from two bottles of Everett's brother's wine. |
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Help Help Samba Member
Joined: May 03, 2013 Posts: 117 Location: Running willy-nilly with scissors in So Cal
|
Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:51 am Post subject: Re: 67 Engine Removal Thwarted |
|
|
That's normal. Go to your toolbox get every extension you have and a knuckle and you should be able to get it off in 30 minutes or so. Seriously, 17mm socket > 3" extension > knuckle > 6" extension > ratchet. Pretty sure that's what worked for me with a just a few minutes of concentration. I may have used a longer extension in place the 6". Perhaps there are others that can give advice if I've got it wrong? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
crukab Samba Chef
Joined: December 13, 2002 Posts: 6115 Location: Vermont
|
Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 8:07 am Post subject: Re: 67 Engine Removal Thwarted |
|
|
crofty wrote: |
Try a socket wrench with a few extensions |
Yep, you need about 18" worth of extensions, and a 6 point 17 mm socket will help too. _________________ Tom
My Pops:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=604100&highlight=
I know you will always be with me, rest in peace with no more pain. 8/13/14.....
In the yard right now:
'51 Dodge 5 window truck
'65 Bug
'66 Singlecab
'82 Rabbit Truck Diesel from CALI
'86 Doublecab W/T
'91 Vanagon carat/wolfsbrg.Tiico
'88 Dodge Ram pickup
'11 Jetta Wagon |
|
Back to top |
|
|
turkis-deluxe Samba Security
Joined: January 06, 2001 Posts: 1545 Location: 94518
|
Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:23 am Post subject: Re: 67 Engine Removal Thwarted |
|
|
crukab wrote: |
crofty wrote: |
Try a socket wrench with a few extensions |
Yep, you need about 18" worth of extensions, and a 6 point 17 mm socket will help too. |
Yep, that's exactly what I do also! Best trick ever! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
EverettB Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000 Posts: 69734 Location: Phoenix Metro
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
will t Samba Member
Joined: February 23, 2009 Posts: 179
|
Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:00 am Post subject: Re: 67 Engine Removal Thwarted |
|
|
Many thanks to you all. I have the tools - not sure why I didn't think to use extensions to go at it from a distance but it makes complete sense.
If I want to change this dog house back to a regular setup am I going to see how when I disassemble it? My goal is to return this bus to stock. I'm guessing I will need a new shroud. And maybe a new oil cooler...
Thanks again to you all
Will |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Who.Me? Samba Member
Joined: July 14, 2014 Posts: 2190 Location: UK (South)
|
Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:24 am Post subject: Re: 67 Engine Removal Thwarted |
|
|
Where are you guys holding the ratchet for you to need that many extensions? In front of the torsion tube?
I can do it with a single extension. I just reach my arm up to where I can reach the clutch arm, like adjusting clutch cable play. From there I can reach the bolt with a ratchet with a single extension. _________________ Andy
Looking for info on my truck's history. Are you from Campbell California or nearby. Do you recognise it? ... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=636786 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
widehatch Samba Member
Joined: May 27, 2007 Posts: 775 Location: Memphis, TN aka The Armpit of the South
|
Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:31 am Post subject: Re: 67 Engine Removal Thwarted |
|
|
will t wrote: |
Many thanks to you all. I have the tools - not sure why I didn't think to use extensions to go at it from a distance but it makes complete sense.
If I want to change this dog house back to a regular setup am I going to see how when I disassemble it? My goal is to return this bus to stock. I'm guessing I will need a new shroud. And maybe a new oil cooler...
Thanks again to you all
Will |
Keep the doghouse oil cooler set up. it will help keep the oil temp down better that the non dog house and its not visible when looking at the engine if youre concerned about an original apperance. _________________ Missouri Micros |
|
Back to top |
|
|
crukab Samba Chef
Joined: December 13, 2002 Posts: 6115 Location: Vermont
|
Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:51 am Post subject: Re: 67 Engine Removal Thwarted |
|
|
Yep, I use something like that ^^^^^^^ on my 1600 s/p w/ a Dog house, it does not have that "bung", but it still works, just a little harder getting that top bolt in. _________________ Tom
My Pops:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=604100&highlight=
I know you will always be with me, rest in peace with no more pain. 8/13/14.....
In the yard right now:
'51 Dodge 5 window truck
'65 Bug
'66 Singlecab
'82 Rabbit Truck Diesel from CALI
'86 Doublecab W/T
'91 Vanagon carat/wolfsbrg.Tiico
'88 Dodge Ram pickup
'11 Jetta Wagon |
|
Back to top |
|
|
will t Samba Member
Joined: February 23, 2009 Posts: 179
|
Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:58 am Post subject: Re: 67 Engine Removal Thwarted |
|
|
widehatch wrote: |
will t wrote: |
Many thanks to you all. I have the tools - not sure why I didn't think to use extensions to go at it from a distance but it makes complete sense.
If I want to change this dog house back to a regular setup am I going to see how when I disassemble it? My goal is to return this bus to stock. I'm guessing I will need a new shroud. And maybe a new oil cooler...
Thanks again to you all
Will |
Keep the doghouse oil cooler set up. it will help keep the oil temp down better that the non dog house and its not visible when looking at the engine if youre concerned about an original apperance. |
Good point |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Tizian Samba Member
Joined: February 18, 2015 Posts: 382 Location: Hamburg, Germany
|
Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:06 am Post subject: Re: 67 Engine Removal Thwarted |
|
|
Who.Me? wrote: |
I can do it with a single extension. I just reach my arm up to where I can reach the clutch arm, like adjusting clutch cable play. From there I can reach the bolt with a ratchet with a single extension. |
I like this fixed nut. And yes you can reach it quite easily like Andy said.
And yes, please keep that doghouse fan shroud.
That was more or less the only modification (except maybe the missing limiter) I made to the engine and is a good improvement in terms of cooling.
The third cylinder is located on the lee site of the original oil cooler setup ending in thermal critical situations when the engine gets hot. That’s the reason why no. 3 fails first. The doghouse cooler is mounted with a significant offset allowing more cool air getting to no. 3...
Looking at the engine from the rear won’t let you tell the difference from a stock shroud...
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
ted698 Samba Member
Joined: June 17, 2016 Posts: 104 Location: Shropshire, UK
|
Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:41 am Post subject: Re: 67 Engine Removal Thwarted |
|
|
You can knock out the round threaded bush from the engine case if you dont want it - they are just a press fit - theyare not that tight, and use a normal bolt/nut combo.
- I prefer reaching around the fan housing from within the engine bay with a 17mm ratchet spanner personally - i find it signifcantly easier, even with Kadrons fitted, I can reach the 2 top nuts relatively easily - you have to do it by feel, and try not to drop your spanner - hahahaha. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
62DoKaGuy Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2011 Posts: 1276 Location: Surprise, AZ
|
Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:17 am Post subject: Re: 67 Engine Removal Thwarted |
|
|
My 1835 did not have the nut-sert style nut until I added it. For me, it was personal preference years ago. I was tired of trying to install the nut and washer while simultaneously trying to prevent my DS carb (dual-carb setup) from latching onto my arm.
So, it’s certainly up to you and is more of a preferential thing. It is far leas frustrating to get an extension and remove the bolt from the front, than finger-fucking the loose nut in an Chinese finger trap. _________________ ,,Wenige Menschen denken, und doch wollen alle entscheiden.'' -der Alte Fritz
EverettB wrote: |
...I went at it from both ends but going from the rear didn't seem to do anything, although I did spray some rust breaker in there... |
4/62 Double Cab
5/61 Panel (sold)
4/59 Single Cab (sold) |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Lind Samba Member
Joined: November 06, 2000 Posts: 9905 Location: idaho
|
Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:25 am Post subject: Re: 67 Engine Removal Thwarted |
|
|
I have driven hundreds of thousands of miles without that bolt, and I never had any problems related to it. Take it out, and throw it away, it will make things easier in the future. _________________ .
Wanted:
Idaho VW license plate frames or other dealership items.
VWoA literature and early dealership or distributor literature/pictures/information
. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Braukuche Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2004 Posts: 10968
|
Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:35 am Post subject: Re: 67 Engine Removal Thwarted |
|
|
Lind wrote: |
I have driven hundreds of thousands of miles without that bolt, and I never had any problems related to it. Take it out, and throw it away, it will make things easier in the future. |
Best advice yet.
Hopefully whoever put in that 4th bolt used some sort of spacer so the bolt head isn’t driven into the recess that exist on pre 71 transaxles. It’s already a PITA to get access to it around the early style clutch cable arm but if the bolt head is driven in all the way it can be a nightmare getting a socket on it. _________________ Go Reds! Smash state!
Retirement is here!
1956 Ghia
1959 SO-23 Westfalia
1960 double cab
1960 Baja Bug
1963 stretched double cab
1962 Golde sunroof Ghia
1963 356 B coupe
1963 Notchback
1967 21 window less rusty now |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ToolBox Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2004 Posts: 3439 Location: Detroit, where they don't jack parts off my ride in the parking lot of the 7-11
|
Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 9:29 am Post subject: Re: 67 Engine Removal Thwarted |
|
|
Braukuche wrote: |
Lind wrote: |
I have driven hundreds of thousands of miles without that bolt, and I never had any problems related to it. Take it out, and throw it away, it will make things easier in the future. |
Best advice yet.
Hopefully whoever put in that 4th bolt used some sort of spacer so the bolt head isn’t driven into the recess that exist on pre 71 transaxles. It’s already a PITA to get access to it around the early style clutch cable arm but if the bolt head is driven in all the way it can be a nightmare getting a socket on it. |
Replace it with a socket head cap screw (AKA: Allen Bolt) and you will not need to worry about the recess. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Old Paint Samba Member
Joined: May 29, 2010 Posts: 436 Location: Battle Ground, Washington
|
Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:49 pm Post subject: Re: 67 Engine Removal Thwarted |
|
|
widehatch wrote: |
will t wrote: |
Many thanks to you all. I have the tools - not sure why I didn't think to use extensions to go at it from a distance but it makes complete sense.
If I want to change this dog house back to a regular setup am I going to see how when I disassemble it? My goal is to return this bus to stock. I'm guessing I will need a new shroud. And maybe a new oil cooler...
Thanks again to you all
Will |
Keep the doghouse oil cooler set up. it will help keep the oil temp down better that the non dog house and its not visible when looking at the engine if youre concerned about an original apperance. |
x10, Keep the doghouse your #3 cylinder will thank you. That setup is the pinnacle ACVW setup. Especially if you have a Westy where you plan to take long roadtrips. _________________ Greg
1961 Ragtop
1961 Single Cab (Old Paint) |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Busstom Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2014 Posts: 3790 Location: San Jose, CA
|
Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:24 pm Post subject: Re: 67 Engine Removal Thwarted |
|
|
ToolBox wrote: |
Replace it with a socket head cap screw (AKA: Allen Bolt) and you will not need to worry about the recess. |
Yep, just like the pic Everett posted. And the added beauty with that arrangement is that once you engage the bit in the hex socket, the tool will stay put and not wobble around and fall off. It'll stay engaged no matter how much fussing and wrestling you do with the ratchet and extensions. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|