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Converting Rear Brakes to Disc
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SoquelDude
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 3:29 pm    Post subject: Converting Rear Brakes to Disc Reply with quote

Hi!

I have a 1990 Vanagon GL. This is not my first VW VAN. I have has 2 Type II vans before, and always hated the performance of the drum brakes on those vans (e.g., heating and softness).

What are the recommendations for changing the braking system on the 1990 Vanagon? Does it make send to convert the rear brakes to disc instead of drum? Should I beef up the front disc brakes since it appears that most of the braking is in the front? What brakes do folks recommend?

Thanks!
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16CVs Premium Member
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 4:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Converting Rear Braked to Disc Reply with quote

We recommend learning to use the FAQ's, These topic has been covered numerous times.

Stacy
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Silverghost500
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 4:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Converting Rear Braked to Disc Reply with quote

It's possible to get a ready made rear disc brake conversion from Burley and GoWesty, and some folks have made their own conversions using a variety of parts. It depends on whether you want bolt in, or have the means of machining some components. It will also depend on what budget you have in mind.
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Crankey
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 8:49 am    Post subject: Re: Converting Rear Braked to Disc Reply with quote

Read some threads on the hill holding capabilities of the rear disc parking brake.
Last I read a lot of folks struggled with getting enough clamping force to hold the vehicle.
I never saw a cohesive solid answer to that issue though some reported they figured it out but not with parts included in a kit, and not all seemed to use the exact same method.

Could also be the conversational nature of message board threads that I lost track of what I was reading.
Could also be the folks satisfied lived in flatter areas and hill folk who weren't quite satisfied.

Personally I have a burly kit on and unresolved weak parking brake. I'm down to swap it out for either a drum or disc kit that works properly. Since I did it I think go westy has put out a disc kit they say is good. But I think there's a drum kit (maybe larger south Africa drum ?) that's also an upgrade over original drum brakes..but it's been 6-7 years I think since I've looked into it.

All I could gleen from threads is, there's more contact area for a drum brake and it's also on the outermost surface of the drum so it's got more leverage then the disc setups.

While driving, the rear disc is fine, but parking on an inclined driveway...not fine.
Parked, sitting in the vehicle and rocking your torso forward and back the vehicle will scootch down hill inch by inch. That's not so great, and as I said, in traffic driving I felt no difference at all. So I felt like if the kits need extra parts to make it work great across the board this parts should be included.
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space
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:50 am    Post subject: Re: Converting Rear Braked to Disc Reply with quote

Crankey wrote:
Read some threads on the hill holding capabilities of the rear disc parking brake.
Last I read a lot of folks struggled with getting enough clamping force to hold the vehicle.
I never saw a cohesive solid answer to that issue though some reported they figured it out but not with parts included in a kit, and not all seemed to use the exact same method.

Could also be the conversational nature of message board threads that I lost track of what I was reading.
Could also be the folks satisfied lived in flatter areas and hill folk who weren't quite satisfied.

Personally I have a burly kit on and unresolved weak parking brake. I'm down to swap it out for either a drum or disc kit that works properly. Since I did it I think go westy has put out a disc kit they say is good. But I think there's a drum kit (maybe larger south Africa drum ?) that's also an upgrade over original drum brakes..but it's been 6-7 years I think since I've looked into it.

All I could gleen from threads is, there's more contact area for a drum brake and it's also on the outermost surface of the drum so it's got more leverage then the disc setups.

While driving, the rear disc is fine, but parking on an inclined driveway...not fine.
Parked, sitting in the vehicle and rocking your torso forward and back the vehicle will scootch down hill inch by inch. That's not so great, and as I said, in traffic driving I felt no difference at all. So I felt like if the kits need extra parts to make it work great across the board this parts should be included.


My rear disc conversion holds very well
Much better than the drums
T
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dobryan
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:56 am    Post subject: Re: Converting Rear Braked to Disc Reply with quote

space wrote:

My rear disc conversion holds very well
Much better than the drums
T


Which conversion is it?
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space
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 10:05 am    Post subject: Re: Converting Rear Brakes to Disc Reply with quote

I pieced it together
Calipers were Raybestos FRC10571-FRC10572
Rotors were audi solid discs RAYBESTOS 96424R
Brackets were from a Samba vendor ( I have to look it up)
T
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 12:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Converting Rear Braked to Disc Reply with quote

Crankey wrote:
Personally I have a burly kit on and unresolved weak parking brake. I'm down to swap it out for either a drum or disc kit that works properly.


Sounds like you have the Audi passenger car brake.
That parking brake didn't even worked well on a 2500lb car, there's little chance it can hold a 5,000 lb van.
But Burley and Smallcar sold a LOT of those kits.
There are a lot of vans whose parking brake makes clickety-click sounds at the handle but doesn't hold the van.

Burley's new kit uses T4/Eurovan rear disc brakes and it's good.
The brake was engineered for a Van by VW, so when used on our vanagons, well..... its using properly size hardware!
GoWesty rear disc kit also uses the T4/Eurovan Brake.
Kudos to GoWesty, that they never sold the little Audi car kit back when Burley and Smallcar were selling hundreds.
I think Smallcar still sells the little car brake.
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SoquelDude
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 12:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Converting Rear Brakes to Disc Reply with quote

So, do folks think it's worth converting to rear disc brakes, assuing I use the T4/Eurovan kits to solve issues with the parking brake?
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vwhammer
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 12:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Converting Rear Brakes to Disc Reply with quote

SoquelDude wrote:
So, do folks think it's worth converting to rear disc brakes, assuing I use the T4/Eurovan kits to solve issues with the parking brake?


I personally would start with front brakes and maybe some new stock parts for the rears
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valvecovergasket
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 1:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Converting Rear Brakes to Disc Reply with quote

SoquelDude wrote:
So, do folks think it's worth converting to rear disc brakes, assuing I use the T4/Eurovan kits to solve issues with the parking brake?


id lean that way for the ease of maintenance alone - and in fact plan to over the winter this year
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space
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 2:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Converting Rear Brakes to Disc Reply with quote

SoquelDude wrote:
So, do folks think it's worth converting to rear disc brakes, assuing I use the T4/Eurovan kits to solve issues with the parking brake?


Definitely
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0cean
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Converting Rear Brakes to Disc Reply with quote

I started a conversion and then said " Why?" Drums have more holding surface and they are not helping that much in stopping power, so Why? Your better off upgrading to with really nice front brakes and saving some money in the back.
Kind-of like a mullet... I guess...
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bajabones
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Converting Rear Brakes to Disc Reply with quote

I just did the GoWesty rear kit
Holds up to slight incline with 1 click
Holds on steep hill with 3 clicks
Both trans in neutral
Way better than my old drum system
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Merian
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Converting Rear Brakes to Disc Reply with quote

SoquelDude wrote:
So, do folks think it's worth converting to rear disc brakes, assuing I use the T4/Eurovan kits to solve issues with the parking brake?


No.

The only benefit is that water will be removed more quickly after a stream crossing, etc. than with drums. The rears contribute less to braking than the fronts.

Replace your brake hoses with new high quality ones and flush/replace your brake fluid every 2 years. Be sure all other brake maintenance is done properly.

If you can lock the wheels then the brakes are not the problem...

People don't understand brake systems very well, and Brake Bling is prevalent in general not just w/ vanagons.

yes, like a mullet... or for high buck GT cars a mud/oil Eurotrash haircut
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kamzcab86
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Converting Rear Brakes to Disc Reply with quote

SoquelDude wrote:
So, do folks think it's worth converting to rear disc brakes, assuming I use the T4/Eurovan kits to solve issues with the parking brake?


In my Westy's case, yes. The drums, even after replacing with the South African drums and all new springs, pads and cylinders, were lousy, including the e-brake. They sucked... royally, especially in comparison to my Cabriolet's drums. Much happier with the GW disc kit; van actually feels like it's stopping now.

I haven't had a chance to do the e-brake hill test yet with my van, but my parents' van was a guinea pig for the GW kit when it debuted well over a year ago and it holds on their steep driveway.
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Zeitgeist 13
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 5:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Converting Rear Brakes to Disc Reply with quote

Swap them to reduce the maintenance hassle if nothing else. These rear drums are a pain royale to maintain, and especially to setup during a brake shoe change.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 6:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Converting Rear Brakes to Disc Reply with quote

the rear drums can be made to hold quite well. even the early vans
do the fronts to a ventillated rotor system 1st priority
if that's done and you want more then sure do the rears. but the fronts 1st.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Converting Rear Brakes to Disc Reply with quote

Zeitgeist 13 wrote:
Swap them to reduce the maintenance hassle if nothing else. These rear drums are a pain royale to maintain, and especially to setup during a brake shoe change.


Replacing the shoes and cylinders once every 150K+ miles doesn't seem like a pain. The brakes will be due for new drums this next time around so will be more costly to rebuild.
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Crankey
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 8:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Converting Rear Braked to Disc Reply with quote

Sodo wrote:
Crankey wrote:
Personally I have a burly kit on and unresolved weak parking brake. I'm down to swap it out for either a drum or disc kit that works properly.


Sounds like you have the Audi passenger car brake.
That parking brake didn't even worked well on a 2500lb car, there's little chance it can hold a 5,000 lb van.
But Burley and Smallcar sold a LOT of those kits.
There are a lot of vans whose parking brake makes clickety-click sounds at the handle but doesn't hold the van.

Burley's new kit uses T4/Eurovan rear disc brakes and it's good.
The brake was engineered for a Van by VW, so when used on our vanagons, well..... its using properly size hardware!
GoWesty rear disc kit also uses the T4/Eurovan Brake.
Kudos to GoWesty, that they never sold the little Audi car kit back when Burley and Smallcar were selling hundreds.
I think Smallcar still sells the little car brake.


Possibly. I traded emails with go westy today and I'm fairly sold on going with their kit now.
30% more hand brake force over stock I was told.
Slightly wider distance between the mounting face of the disc hats...I'd like to know exactly how much wider. I'd prefer it to be a little narrow.
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