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SoquelDude Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2021 Posts: 156 Location: Samta Cruz, CA
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Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 3:29 pm Post subject: Converting Rear Brakes to Disc |
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Hi!
I have a 1990 Vanagon GL. This is not my first VW VAN. I have has 2 Type II vans before, and always hated the performance of the drum brakes on those vans (e.g., heating and softness).
What are the recommendations for changing the braking system on the 1990 Vanagon? Does it make send to convert the rear brakes to disc instead of drum? Should I beef up the front disc brakes since it appears that most of the braking is in the front? What brakes do folks recommend?
Thanks! |
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16CVs Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2004 Posts: 4026 Location: Redwood City, California
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Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 4:02 pm Post subject: Re: Converting Rear Braked to Disc |
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We recommend learning to use the FAQ's, These topic has been covered numerous times.
Stacy _________________ 1987 Syncro Westfalia Triple knob (bastard)
1989 Syncro Tristar Triple knob "Swedish"
2013 Jetta Hybrid a true "Zwitter"
Samba member # 14980
Call anytime number 650 722 4914 .
Keep Your van running and upkept tastefully for the love of the hobby.
Don't let your van end up in an "abortions" thread. |
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Silverghost500 Samba Member
Joined: August 01, 2018 Posts: 1089 Location: Atlanta, GA
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Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 4:34 pm Post subject: Re: Converting Rear Braked to Disc |
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It's possible to get a ready made rear disc brake conversion from Burley and GoWesty, and some folks have made their own conversions using a variety of parts. It depends on whether you want bolt in, or have the means of machining some components. It will also depend on what budget you have in mind. _________________ 1986 Volkswagen Vanagon Westfalia "Von Westy"
Honda K24A converversion-Road Testing Phase
3-Speed Automatic
Von Westy YouTube Channel
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbhyZYxJEQrUuLnMbLleeIA |
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Crankey Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2004 Posts: 2659
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Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 8:49 am Post subject: Re: Converting Rear Braked to Disc |
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Read some threads on the hill holding capabilities of the rear disc parking brake.
Last I read a lot of folks struggled with getting enough clamping force to hold the vehicle.
I never saw a cohesive solid answer to that issue though some reported they figured it out but not with parts included in a kit, and not all seemed to use the exact same method.
Could also be the conversational nature of message board threads that I lost track of what I was reading.
Could also be the folks satisfied lived in flatter areas and hill folk who weren't quite satisfied.
Personally I have a burly kit on and unresolved weak parking brake. I'm down to swap it out for either a drum or disc kit that works properly. Since I did it I think go westy has put out a disc kit they say is good. But I think there's a drum kit (maybe larger south Africa drum ?) that's also an upgrade over original drum brakes..but it's been 6-7 years I think since I've looked into it.
All I could gleen from threads is, there's more contact area for a drum brake and it's also on the outermost surface of the drum so it's got more leverage then the disc setups.
While driving, the rear disc is fine, but parking on an inclined driveway...not fine.
Parked, sitting in the vehicle and rocking your torso forward and back the vehicle will scootch down hill inch by inch. That's not so great, and as I said, in traffic driving I felt no difference at all. So I felt like if the kits need extra parts to make it work great across the board this parts should be included. |
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space Samba Member
Joined: November 19, 2017 Posts: 673
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Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:50 am Post subject: Re: Converting Rear Braked to Disc |
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Crankey wrote: |
Read some threads on the hill holding capabilities of the rear disc parking brake.
Last I read a lot of folks struggled with getting enough clamping force to hold the vehicle.
I never saw a cohesive solid answer to that issue though some reported they figured it out but not with parts included in a kit, and not all seemed to use the exact same method.
Could also be the conversational nature of message board threads that I lost track of what I was reading.
Could also be the folks satisfied lived in flatter areas and hill folk who weren't quite satisfied.
Personally I have a burly kit on and unresolved weak parking brake. I'm down to swap it out for either a drum or disc kit that works properly. Since I did it I think go westy has put out a disc kit they say is good. But I think there's a drum kit (maybe larger south Africa drum ?) that's also an upgrade over original drum brakes..but it's been 6-7 years I think since I've looked into it.
All I could gleen from threads is, there's more contact area for a drum brake and it's also on the outermost surface of the drum so it's got more leverage then the disc setups.
While driving, the rear disc is fine, but parking on an inclined driveway...not fine.
Parked, sitting in the vehicle and rocking your torso forward and back the vehicle will scootch down hill inch by inch. That's not so great, and as I said, in traffic driving I felt no difference at all. So I felt like if the kits need extra parts to make it work great across the board this parts should be included. |
My rear disc conversion holds very well
Much better than the drums
T _________________ 82 westy
w:
2.5 JDM Subie
Rear discs |
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dobryan Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2006 Posts: 16505 Location: Brookeville, MD
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space Samba Member
Joined: November 19, 2017 Posts: 673
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Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 10:05 am Post subject: Re: Converting Rear Brakes to Disc |
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I pieced it together
Calipers were Raybestos FRC10571-FRC10572
Rotors were audi solid discs RAYBESTOS 96424R
Brackets were from a Samba vendor ( I have to look it up)
T _________________ 82 westy
w:
2.5 JDM Subie
Rear discs |
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Sodo Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007 Posts: 9618 Location: Western WA
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Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 12:21 pm Post subject: Re: Converting Rear Braked to Disc |
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Crankey wrote: |
Personally I have a burly kit on and unresolved weak parking brake. I'm down to swap it out for either a drum or disc kit that works properly. |
Sounds like you have the Audi passenger car brake.
That parking brake didn't even worked well on a 2500lb car, there's little chance it can hold a 5,000 lb van.
But Burley and Smallcar sold a LOT of those kits.
There are a lot of vans whose parking brake makes clickety-click sounds at the handle but doesn't hold the van.
Burley's new kit uses T4/Eurovan rear disc brakes and it's good.
The brake was engineered for a Van by VW, so when used on our vanagons, well..... its using properly size hardware!
GoWesty rear disc kit also uses the T4/Eurovan Brake.
Kudos to GoWesty, that they never sold the little Audi car kit back when Burley and Smallcar were selling hundreds.
I think Smallcar still sells the little car brake. _________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
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SoquelDude Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2021 Posts: 156 Location: Samta Cruz, CA
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Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 12:39 pm Post subject: Re: Converting Rear Brakes to Disc |
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So, do folks think it's worth converting to rear disc brakes, assuing I use the T4/Eurovan kits to solve issues with the parking brake? |
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vwhammer Samba Member
Joined: May 20, 2006 Posts: 998 Location: Boulder CO.
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valvecovergasket Samba Member
Joined: October 10, 2018 Posts: 1492 Location: pnw
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Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 1:22 pm Post subject: Re: Converting Rear Brakes to Disc |
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SoquelDude wrote: |
So, do folks think it's worth converting to rear disc brakes, assuing I use the T4/Eurovan kits to solve issues with the parking brake? |
id lean that way for the ease of maintenance alone - and in fact plan to over the winter this year _________________ MegaSquirt resource - SpitfireEFI.com
gone, but not forgotten: '83 tdi westy - swap thread |
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space Samba Member
Joined: November 19, 2017 Posts: 673
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Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 2:47 pm Post subject: Re: Converting Rear Brakes to Disc |
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SoquelDude wrote: |
So, do folks think it's worth converting to rear disc brakes, assuing I use the T4/Eurovan kits to solve issues with the parking brake? |
Definitely _________________ 82 westy
w:
2.5 JDM Subie
Rear discs |
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0cean Samba Member
Joined: February 29, 2012 Posts: 1149 Location: California
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Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:22 pm Post subject: Re: Converting Rear Brakes to Disc |
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I started a conversion and then said " Why?" Drums have more holding surface and they are not helping that much in stopping power, so Why? Your better off upgrading to with really nice front brakes and saving some money in the back.
Kind-of like a mullet... I guess... _________________ I'm not a mechanic, I just play one on the internet
Cluster Rebuild:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=569920&highlight=
Left for Dead the Resurrection Story Build:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=613669
(Number of Different Donor VW Vans Body Parts Used: 12)
(Number of completely different vehicles parts used: 3) |
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bajabones Samba Member
Joined: April 17, 2019 Posts: 134 Location: Tacoma, WA
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Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:32 pm Post subject: Re: Converting Rear Brakes to Disc |
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I just did the GoWesty rear kit
Holds up to slight incline with 1 click
Holds on steep hill with 3 clicks
Both trans in neutral
Way better than my old drum system _________________ 1990 Syncro Doka
2.1 DJ
Triple Knob
Solid shaft |
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Merian Samba Member
Joined: January 04, 2014 Posts: 5212 Location: Orygun
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Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:44 pm Post subject: Re: Converting Rear Brakes to Disc |
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SoquelDude wrote: |
So, do folks think it's worth converting to rear disc brakes, assuing I use the T4/Eurovan kits to solve issues with the parking brake? |
No.
The only benefit is that water will be removed more quickly after a stream crossing, etc. than with drums. The rears contribute less to braking than the fronts.
Replace your brake hoses with new high quality ones and flush/replace your brake fluid every 2 years. Be sure all other brake maintenance is done properly.
If you can lock the wheels then the brakes are not the problem...
People don't understand brake systems very well, and Brake Bling is prevalent in general not just w/ vanagons.
yes, like a mullet... or for high buck GT cars a mud/oil Eurotrash haircut _________________ .... |
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kamzcab86 Samba Moderator
Joined: July 26, 2008 Posts: 7925 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:46 pm Post subject: Re: Converting Rear Brakes to Disc |
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SoquelDude wrote: |
So, do folks think it's worth converting to rear disc brakes, assuming I use the T4/Eurovan kits to solve issues with the parking brake? |
In my Westy's case, yes. The drums, even after replacing with the South African drums and all new springs, pads and cylinders, were lousy, including the e-brake. They sucked... royally, especially in comparison to my Cabriolet's drums. Much happier with the GW disc kit; van actually feels like it's stopping now.
I haven't had a chance to do the e-brake hill test yet with my van, but my parents' van was a guinea pig for the GW kit when it debuted well over a year ago and it holds on their steep driveway. _________________ ~Kamz
1986 Cabriolet: www.Cabby-Info.com
1990 Vanagon Westfalia: Old Blue's Blog
2016 Golf GTI S
"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance." - 孔子
Last edited by kamzcab86 on Fri Jun 18, 2021 7:27 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Zeitgeist 13 Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009 Posts: 12115 Location: Port Manteau
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Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 5:51 pm Post subject: Re: Converting Rear Brakes to Disc |
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Swap them to reduce the maintenance hassle if nothing else. These rear drums are a pain royale to maintain, and especially to setup during a brake shoe change. _________________ Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik? |
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danfromsyr Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2004 Posts: 15144 Location: Syracuse, NY
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Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 6:05 pm Post subject: Re: Converting Rear Brakes to Disc |
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the rear drums can be made to hold quite well. even the early vans
do the fronts to a ventillated rotor system 1st priority
if that's done and you want more then sure do the rears. but the fronts 1st. _________________
Abscate wrote: |
These are the reasons we have words like “wanker” |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50352
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Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:23 pm Post subject: Re: Converting Rear Brakes to Disc |
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Zeitgeist 13 wrote: |
Swap them to reduce the maintenance hassle if nothing else. These rear drums are a pain royale to maintain, and especially to setup during a brake shoe change. |
Replacing the shoes and cylinders once every 150K+ miles doesn't seem like a pain. The brakes will be due for new drums this next time around so will be more costly to rebuild. |
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Crankey Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2004 Posts: 2659
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Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 8:30 pm Post subject: Re: Converting Rear Braked to Disc |
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Sodo wrote: |
Crankey wrote: |
Personally I have a burly kit on and unresolved weak parking brake. I'm down to swap it out for either a drum or disc kit that works properly. |
Sounds like you have the Audi passenger car brake.
That parking brake didn't even worked well on a 2500lb car, there's little chance it can hold a 5,000 lb van.
But Burley and Smallcar sold a LOT of those kits.
There are a lot of vans whose parking brake makes clickety-click sounds at the handle but doesn't hold the van.
Burley's new kit uses T4/Eurovan rear disc brakes and it's good.
The brake was engineered for a Van by VW, so when used on our vanagons, well..... its using properly size hardware!
GoWesty rear disc kit also uses the T4/Eurovan Brake.
Kudos to GoWesty, that they never sold the little Audi car kit back when Burley and Smallcar were selling hundreds.
I think Smallcar still sells the little car brake. |
Possibly. I traded emails with go westy today and I'm fairly sold on going with their kit now.
30% more hand brake force over stock I was told.
Slightly wider distance between the mounting face of the disc hats...I'd like to know exactly how much wider. I'd prefer it to be a little narrow. |
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