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dobryan
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Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 16502
Location: Brookeville, MD
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Sodo
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Joined: July 06, 2007
Posts: 9603
Location: Western WA
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 Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2024 10:25 pm Post subject: Re: Grease for rear wheel bearing |
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My 43kmi syncro had OG grease.
The grease looked like the wax ring of a toilet seal.
Or maybe like those $9 brown translucent bars of soap that my wife gets for her birthday.
You know the kind that looks so nice you feel guilty jamming it where the sun don't shine  ('cuz there's no witnesses).
Greases are either soap-base or Lithium base.
But I do know you don't wanna mix soap base with lithium base, because the mixture has a film strength of less than either grease.
So why then .... doesn't every grease tub include this detail (soap-or-lithium) if it's important?
I chased this item pretty hard for awhile.....cuz if you should not mix greases, how can you tell what you have?
Well with all I've read, my bathroom references are about as good as anything.
This is a gearhead's puzzlement.
One of the industry journals I saw regarding 'mixing greases' said "Grease the item often with a known grease to flush out the unknown grease."
Anyway I cleaned it all out and filled with new "wheel bearing grease".
Next time, I can just needle-grease it with "wheel bearing grease".
IMHO it's better to flush out old grease periodically to carry the wear particles out, so I wanted to get situated for that process.
I didn't know about "SKF LGAF3E/0 Anti-Fretting Agent" at this time.
I fret that I failed to assemble the 43k mi bearings in the pristine housings with Anti Fretting agent.<---(referenced below)
====================
Another thing to consider is housing wear.
In "my studies" ..... evidence suggests 'micro-movement' of steels in heavy-load-contact in the absence of lubrication as the cause of the bore wear.
So what you may want to do is....
Take them apart..
If the races lightly tap out of the bores, (or worse, 'fall out') then glue them in with Loctite 660.
If by some chance they are still tight, to preserve them, use SKF LGAF3E/0 which is a lubricant, not a glue.
Cross-link: Can 225k rear Wheel Bearings be better than "new"? (mine were!)
I asked Syncro grandmaster Tom Lengyel whats his advice and he said "if they're not too loose I glue them in with Loctite®660"
I asked him.... "can that actually work?"
He replied "Time will tell".
So I glued my 225k OG bearings in the (slightly) worn housings with Loctite 660®.
_________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
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Gnarlodious 
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Joined: September 28, 2013
Posts: 2319
Location: Adobe Jungle USA
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| Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2024 11:03 pm Post subject: Re: Grease for rear wheel bearing |
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I took it all apart last summer, cleaned thoroughly, new seals and bearings at 316k miles. I used the red stringy extremely sticky grease which is lithium based.
What happened is I drove through a flood maybe 12 years ago in Boulder and water got into one side rear bearing so it was all rusty. It had been rumbling for a few years and getting worse. Fortunately the rear roller bearings are way over capacity for a mere Vanagon.
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Vanagon ’83 diesel AAZ w/Giles injection, 5spd 4.57R&P+TBD and a '78 diesel Rabbit |
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dobryan
Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 16502
Location: Brookeville, MD
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| Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2024 7:16 am Post subject: Re: Grease for rear wheel bearing |
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My understanding is that if I pressed out the rear axle stub it would ruin the rear bearings and force me to replace them. These bearing have 'only' 125,000 miles on them and I strongly suspect are fine so all I really want to do at this point is refresh the grease.
I'll just order a tube of ordinary wheel bearing grease. Nothing fancy.
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Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD
"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson
MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646
Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371
The Western Syncro build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794 |
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MarkWard
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Joined: February 09, 2005
Posts: 17116
Location: Retired South Florida
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| Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2024 7:18 am Post subject: Re: Grease for rear wheel bearing |
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Dave you’re pretty handy. Wondering why you wouldn’t just disassemble the housings clean, grease, and new seals? Mark
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dobryan
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Location: Brookeville, MD
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thatbaldwinlife
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Joined: August 01, 2011
Posts: 777
Location: Out exploring
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| Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2024 7:43 am Post subject: Re: Grease for rear wheel bearing |
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Pushing out the stub axle will not damage the bearings. When you remove the outer bearing from the housing, that is when it gets destroyed (at least mine always have). The inner bearing taps out like a normal bearing.
I would pull the stub axle, inner bearing, and spacer and clean it all up and put in a new, known grease.
nate
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1987 Westy
Insta: @Thatbaldwinlife
Vanagon Adventure and DIY videos:
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dobryan
Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 16502
Location: Brookeville, MD
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| Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2024 8:22 am Post subject: Re: Grease for rear wheel bearing |
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| thatbaldwinlife wrote: |
Pushing out the stub axle will not damage the bearings. When you remove the outer bearing from the housing, that is when it gets destroyed (at least mine always have). The inner bearing taps out like a normal bearing.
I would pull the stub axle, inner bearing, and spacer and clean it all up and put in a new, known grease.
nate |
Will do!
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Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD
"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson
MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646
Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371
The Western Syncro build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794 |
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MarkWard
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Joined: February 09, 2005
Posts: 17116
Location: Retired South Florida
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| Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2024 8:23 am Post subject: Re: Grease for rear wheel bearing |
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Dave not sure what gets destroyed that you are referring to? To make life easier you could unbolt the bearing housing and work on it on a bench. Been a while since I had one apart, but don’t have a memory of damaging anything.
I’ve got about 170k miles on our original rear wheel bearings. They are on the list of course. I’d probably add grease zerk fittings at the same time. Granted you can only get so much grease in there.
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Sodo
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Joined: July 06, 2007
Posts: 9603
Location: Western WA
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| Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2024 9:11 am Post subject: Re: Grease for rear wheel bearing |
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| MarkWard wrote: |
| ...add zerk fittings at the same time. Granted you can only get so much grease in there. |
Mark periodic needle greasing, where you pull the axle out of the (inner) seal and eject the old grease seems much better.
Logically the act of displacing contaminated grease with clean is what increases the lifetime.
There's nothing about (proper) disassembly that damages the bearings.
The needle-grease method is better suited for "intermediate intervals" like 50,000 or 25,000 etc.
It's all sitting there right in front of you.
I think you should clean them out and put known grease in.
Plus, you will KNOW if the bearing bore is wearing.
Then you can make the decision to "fill the gap" with Loctite 660 or go the "preservation route", installing the bearing with SKF Anti-fretting agent.
_________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
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Sodo
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007
Posts: 9603
Location: Western WA
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| Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2024 9:31 am Post subject: Re: Grease for rear wheel bearing |
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| Sodo wrote: |
One thing to note here that I think is important.
With a needle inserted to the centroid of the housing,
if you incrementally pump grease in at 12:00, 3:00. 6;00, 9;00....
a few pumps at-a time...
....the old grease comes out in a very orderly fashion, parallel.
So orderly.... that it appears like you're getting ALL of the old grease out.
I much prefer this method to a Zerk, which the single-point of entry would not eject the old grease in a parallel manner.
<snip>
If you don't wanna unbolt CVs, take note ^this^ can be done.
The bearing housing can be pulled off the axle and you can replace the inner seal (VW part number 211-501-317) .
The driver's side required 'coaxing' with a hammer and a block of wood.
The passenger side just slid right off.
I think the passenger side takes a beating (on the roadside, hitting more potholes).
Notice the housing and its seal have been pulled off the inner seal land of the stub axle.
But the stub axle is still inserted.
See the grease blob emerging?
This housing was cleaned thus the grease coming out is all new, clean.
But if there was old grease, this is how you’d watch for the grease color to change from old to fresh. |
Quote excerpted from Can 225k rear Wheel Bearings be better than "new"? (mine were!)
This is easy on a van with rear disc brakes.
I don't know if it's feasible on a van with original drum drum brakes.
_________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
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E1
Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2013
Posts: 6532
Location: Westfalia, Earth
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| Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2024 9:34 am Post subject: Re: Grease for rear wheel bearing |
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Dave, I just went through some serious research, including on here, on finding the right grease for both CVs and bearings.
We carried a Redline CV2 tube for years, but donated it to a bus shop doing our CVs as he stocked next to nothing compared to what’s in our van.
Could not find any Redline in the two years since, but didn’t need it yet, either.
Last week we checked five parts stores, and bought the Sta-Lube Extreme Pressure Moly-Graph. The drop point is labeled at 350F minimum, which is 200F less than some other brands.
If this is the wrong grease and anybody knows it, please advise…!
But the two main factors I read over and over by some members here were “Moly,” and “Extreme Pressure.” And many had commented that the Redline and other red greases get very thin — too thin — when hot.
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‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
— Colin Chapman |
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