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chippuller Samba Member
Joined: June 17, 2021 Posts: 72 Location: MO
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Posted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 8:00 pm Post subject: New member, Intro and question/problem |
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New member here... intro and a question/problem.
I bought a 1965 VW Microbus in1994. Everything 'below the water line" had the typical rust and decay, but everything else was in surprisingly good condition. I started working on it ... fabricated new left hand inner, intermediate and outer rockers. Fab'ed right hand inner and intermediate rocker and purchased new outer rocker .... but "life got in the way" and it sat in the garage for the next 27 years!?!?
Fast forward to 2021, I am in a position to dedicate some serious time to bringing her back to life. A new condenser was all that it took to get her started! Ran and idled fine!
I started on the serious rust removal. Removed left and right hand floor sections and purchased replacements, working on replacing/repairing everything "below the water line". Making reasonably good progress (see pics in gallery 'chippuller's 65')
Now comes the question/problem... It has been starting and running fine, although that has only been to move it in and out of the garage to work on it. I have regularly let it run for 10 or 15 minutes at a time and it seemed very happy.
Last week, when I backed it out, I let it idle for about 20 minutes, with no problems, but when I went to pull it back into the garage, it wouldn't start. To make a long story short, It now has a new Bosch coil and condenser, new points (which were replaced when I first tried starting it), the points are gapped correctly, the static timing is correct. When cranking it over with ignition on I get a spark from the coil secondary to jump 1/2" to a ground, I get a decent spark with a plug removed and grounded, I am getting fuel... but it doesn't even pop!
What I don't understand is that I get continuity from the fixed to moveable point WHEN THEY ARE OPEN !!! But when I disconnect the condenser wire that continuity is broken!?!?
Any ides about what is going on.... what I am doing wrong... any ideas, suggestions are greatly appreciated. |
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BarryL Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2004 Posts: 14271 Location: Casa de Oro, California
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Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 6:02 pm Post subject: Re: New member, Intro and question/problem |
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Can you post a photo looking into the distributor? Do you have the condenser wire going to the negative side of the coil? |
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chippuller Samba Member
Joined: June 17, 2021 Posts: 72 Location: MO
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Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:46 am Post subject: Re: New member, Intro and question/problem |
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Hi Barry,
Thanks for the reply.... Yes, I confirmed that the condenser is attached to the neg. terminal of the coil. Here is a pic of the distributor.
Thanks |
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chippuller Samba Member
Joined: June 17, 2021 Posts: 72 Location: MO
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Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:54 am Post subject: Re: New member, Intro and question/problem |
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Barry,
I forgot to mention..... in looking at the picture it looks like the connector from the points to the condenser is touching the distributor housing!?!? It is not. the rubber grommet on the new Bosc condenser is a bit 'fat' and is almost impossible to get fully seated in the distributor housing. I had to lever it in this far with a screwdriver resting on the distributor clamp. I didn't push it in any farther because the dist. clamp was starting to bend!??!? and was afraid of tearing the rubber grommet. |
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BarryL Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2004 Posts: 14271 Location: Casa de Oro, California
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Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:16 pm Post subject: Re: New member, Intro and question/problem |
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Everything looks right. There is a tool for pushing the green plastic in but you have to pull the distributor to do it.
How is your rotor and cap? Sometimes the cap loses the little carbon follower. Make sure the green wire didn't chaff through to short against the clamp.
Do you have a static test light? If so clip it on the negative and stick the icepick into the carb spring. Have someone crank and see if it pulses. |
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chippuller Samba Member
Joined: June 17, 2021 Posts: 72 Location: MO
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Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:37 pm Post subject: Re: New member, Intro and question/problem |
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Hi Barry,
Thanks for the reply! ... The carbon button in in place. Also checked continuity from carbon button to the end of the coil wire at the coil end. checks fine.
Not sure I follow that last recommendation. I have a test light. You say "hook it up to the negative" (neg terminal of the coil?) and "poke the ice pick into the carb spring"...Carb spring? do you mean the throttle return spring?!?! What will that tell me? ...or is that just any ground?
Thanks again for your guidance........ |
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BarryL Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2004 Posts: 14271 Location: Casa de Oro, California
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Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:44 pm Post subject: Re: New member, Intro and question/problem |
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Yes negative coil. Yes any good ground. |
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chippuller Samba Member
Joined: June 17, 2021 Posts: 72 Location: MO
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Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:55 pm Post subject: Re: New member, Intro and question/problem |
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Well, I just went back out to the garage and took a close look... as you guessed, the the wires coming out of the grommet are riding on the distributor hold down clamp. I can't tell if they are grounding out but it sure looks suspicious!
I think I will pull the distributor in the morning. Anything I should watch out for? If I don't crank the engine, it should just drop back in the correct position, right? (Famous last words...................)
I'll let you know what I come up with in the morning. |
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chippuller Samba Member
Joined: June 17, 2021 Posts: 72 Location: MO
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Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 7:22 pm Post subject: Re: New member, Intro and question/problem |
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Got it! Will check it out in the AM! |
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chippuller Samba Member
Joined: June 17, 2021 Posts: 72 Location: MO
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Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:14 am Post subject: Re: New member, Intro and question/problem |
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Well, I thought we had it...but no such luck . I was going to remove the condenser to check the wires but discovered that I couldn't even get the grommet out because it was hard up against the distributor clamp! (I must have installed the condenser before I rotated the distributor to set the timing).
I pulled the distributor and sure enough, the insulation on the condenser wire was cut where it was riding on the clamp. The first thing I did was modified the clamp to allow removal and installation of the condenser! I put a temporary patch on the chaffed wire (3M Electrical insulation). reinstalled it and ran the test described in the Bentley factory manual to be sure the condenser was not shorted.
Unfortunately I have the same condition I started with... continuity across points when open but not when I disconnect the condenser wire to coil neg, a solid spark from the coil to ground and spark at a grounded spark plug....but not even a pfftt!
I don't understand why I have continuity across the open points, but what I really don't understand is if there is a short across the points, how is it triggering a spark at the coil and the plugs!?!?
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51156 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:23 am Post subject: Re: New member, Intro and question/problem |
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chippuller wrote: |
I don't understand why I have continuity across the open points, |
If they are still connected to the coil you are reading the coil windings, the question is how many Ohms of continuity are you reading? _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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chippuller Samba Member
Joined: June 17, 2021 Posts: 72 Location: MO
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Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:53 am Post subject: Re: New member, Intro and question/problem |
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.08 ohms..... |
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Wade Samba Member
Joined: February 13, 2007 Posts: 125 Location: NorCal
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Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 12:52 pm Post subject: Re: New member, Intro and question/problem |
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Chip,
Could the time the bus spent in storage have resulted in water condensing into the gas tank. Now, your running of the engine has resulted in the tank running low such that what you think is fuel pumping to the carbs is actually the water floating on top of the fuel? I've been in situations where my tank gets low and the water floating on the gas begins getting sucked into the intake resulting in bad running or the engine dying.
Just a though because it sounded like it just died on you one day vs being the result of something you messed with.
Regardless, good luck with your project.
Cheers,
-Wade |
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FarmerBill Samba Member
Joined: July 25, 2017 Posts: 767 Location: New England
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Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 1:47 pm Post subject: Re: New member, Intro and question/problem |
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Gasoline floats on top of water, but bad gas could be the problem. When the ethanol in today's gas absorbs too much water you get phase separation and the alcohol/water mix sinks to the bottom of the tank. If it gets really bad, you get gasoline, ethanol/water, and water layers. Kind of like 3-2-1 Jello (whatever happened to that product?). You can drain a sample from your fuel line and look at it, but depending on the amount in the tank you may only get a sample of the bottom layer. Or if you decide that bad gas may be the culprit you can pour fresh gas with ethanol shield in the tank and rock your bus back and forth to mix things up. Or if you think it's really bad you can drain the whole tank and start fresh. Just be careful and eliminate any potential ignition points when messing with gasoline. And remember the carb bowl will be filled with bad gas too. |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51156 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 3:30 pm Post subject: Re: New member, Intro and question/problem |
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chippuller wrote: |
.08 ohms..... |
Sounds like a coil to me. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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chippuller Samba Member
Joined: June 17, 2021 Posts: 72 Location: MO
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Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 3:57 pm Post subject: Re: New member, Intro and question/problem |
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Wade, Bill,
Nope...new fuel, brand new "gas tank" I wasn't about to use the fuel that was in the tank for 20 years.....
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chippuller Samba Member
Joined: June 17, 2021 Posts: 72 Location: MO
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Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 4:01 pm Post subject: Re: New member, Intro and question/problem |
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Busdaddy,
Brand new Bosch coil..... I replaced it because I thought that was the problem .... I will have to check the coil winding resistance with it out of the circuit, but I am getting a half inch long zap from the coil to ground!?!? |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51156 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 4:23 pm Post subject: Re: New member, Intro and question/problem |
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chippuller wrote: |
Busdaddy,
Brand new Bosch coil..... I replaced it because I thought that was the problem .... I will have to check the coil winding resistance with it out of the circuit, but I am getting a half inch long zap from the coil to ground!?!? |
I'm not saying the coil is a problem, I meant that's a normal resistance for a coil. And obviously it works, so it what else could be the issue?, you solved the shorted condenser wire, have you made sure the distributor is engaged in the drive and actually turns while cranking? _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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FarmerBill Samba Member
Joined: July 25, 2017 Posts: 767 Location: New England
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Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 5:02 pm Post subject: Re: New member, Intro and question/problem |
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How old are your plug wires? I had a Toyota hilux that did the same thing once. Just wouldn't start one day after running fine. Old plugs and bad wires was the cause. |
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chippuller Samba Member
Joined: June 17, 2021 Posts: 72 Location: MO
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Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 5:09 pm Post subject: Re: New member, Intro and question/problem |
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Busdaddy,
Sorry I misunderstood your original post. Yes, that's what I've been asking myself.... "What else could it be!?!?" ................. |
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