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TMWheelock
Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2021
Posts: 18
Location: Brooklyn
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 Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 2:49 pm Post subject: Weird Interaction with a mechanic / Is my van dying? |
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Howdy ya’ll
I’ll try and keep this relatively short and to the point.
I was having some problems with my new to me 1984 Westfalia. It’s the water-cooled 1.9L
Like a good Vanagon owner I’d been trying to consult the Bible that is the Bentley manual and the Oracle that is YouTube in an attempt to accomplish my own repairs.
I’d had varying levels of success addressing my pulsing idle issue (discussed on this forum ad nauseam I know), leaky fuel lines and roof hole. I thought it might be time to get a second pair of eyes on the problem to see if I was on the right course.
I drive down to South Brooklyn to a shop that apparently services old VW vans. The owner had told me to take it on by so he could listen to it. When I get to the shop his adult son is yelling at him at the top of his lungs. An awkward silence ensues and the guy tells me to wait out in the lot and he’ll get to me in a minute.
No big deal.
After about fifteen minutes the guy comes out and has me open up the engine bay. I turn on the van and he gives it a listen. He proceeds to tell me that my “pollution pump” is gong bad and it’s going to destroy the alternator. What he’s referring to is the water pump pulley I think. He advises me to attach the V belt to the unused AC pulley and not worry about it.
This seems crazy to me, but as I said I’m new to this world.
He said a bunch of other things that made me feel like my van is on the verge of death. He didn’t offer to fix anything, just said good luck and walked away. Was he right? Was he just in a bad mood? Somewhere in between?
Here’s a video of my van’s engine running and a closeup of the suspect pulley:
Link
There’s definitely something going on with that pulley and there is a strange grinding noise happening.
I’m not sure how to proceed. Anyone have advice or know of a shop in the NYC area that could help me? I’m willing to drive it as long as there’s consensus that doing so won’t wreck the engine.
Thanks so much in advance for any input you might have. Looking forward to many more years in this old land yacht. I just want to get it to baseline functionality.
Cheers!
TLDR: I took my van to a mechanic in South Brooklyn and he gave me some weird advice about my “pollution pump.” I’m unsure of what’s going on with my van but the water pump pulley does have some movement and it is making a strange noise. Hoping for some insight from those wiser than myself. |
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VicVan
Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2015
Posts: 1845
Location: Vancouver Island, BC
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| Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 3:02 pm Post subject: Re: Weird Interaction with a mechanic / Is my van dying? |
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Your water pump does seem to have a lot of play, from what you can see on the video. I don;t have alot of experience with water pumps, so better wait for more experienced folks to chime in.
What I know is that when they give, lots of coolant spew out, and you're stranded. You can easily overheat the engine if you don't turn it off in less than 20 seconds. And before a water pump gives away, there's usually play at the pulley. Does coolant leak from underneath the pump or its pulley?
Make sure your belt is not set to tight, fix/change that water pump (pollution pump lol), and don't go back to that garage.
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'90 Little Blue Truck, 2WD auto, FAS GenV 2.0 NA (AVH) |
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Igeo
Samba Member
Joined: September 25, 2018
Posts: 888
Location: Oakland, CA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 3:14 pm Post subject: Re: Weird Interaction with a mechanic / Is my van dying? |
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Agree with the above post. The water pump bearing is worn. Not an easy job to replace that one. If you elect to have a shop do it, don't let it be the shop you went to first. The good news is that it seems to idle well.
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1987 Westfalia 2.1 WBX Manual |
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SyncroHead 
Samba Member
Joined: May 23, 2005
Posts: 1145
Location: Northern Nevada
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| Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 3:17 pm Post subject: Re: Weird Interaction with a mechanic / Is my van dying? |
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| TMWheelock wrote: |
I turn on the van and he gives it a listen. He proceeds to tell me that my “pollution pump” is gong bad and it’s going to destroy the alternator. What he’s referring to is the water pump pulley I think. He advises me to attach the V belt to the unused AC pulley and not worry about it.
This seems crazy to me, but as I said I’m new to this world.
He said a bunch of other things that made me feel like my van is on the verge of death. He didn’t offer to fix anything, just said good luck and walked away. Was he right? Was he just in a bad mood? Somewhere in between? |
1. Seems like he hates water cooled VWs calling your water pump a "pollution pump", so even if he were willing to work on it, I would not go back there. Run, don't walk.
2. Your water pump and alternator pulleys will NOT line up with the A/C pulley groove on the crank pulley, so I can't hardly imagine what he was advising with that comment.
3. From the video it sounds like your water pump bearings are shot and causing both the visible wobble and the noise.
Recommendation: Yes, the water pump needs to be replaced. It's sort of an ugly job, so if you can find someone experienced wit this it would be best. If not, though it's "ugly", it's not rocket science and anyone with mechanic knowledge and determination can do it. The ugliness is mostly limited access and getting old bolts to turn instead of stripping out the head.
Jim Davis
4. PS: Vanagons are always on the verge of death! 
Unless its runaway rust or a fire, they can be brought back. Have you changed your fuel lines. Old leaky fuel lines are an all too frequent cause of fires and Vanagon loss.
_________________
"A Vanagon? It's not a car or a van. It's a hobby!"
Check out:
www.VANAVATION.com
www.SyncroSafari.org and
www.Vanagons.org
| sphet wrote: |
| I have *no* idea what the previous owner carried in his Westy... angry donkeys? |
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sjbartnik
Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2011
Posts: 5998
Location: Brooklyn
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| Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 3:51 pm Post subject: Re: Weird Interaction with a mechanic / Is my van dying? |
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Some older cars used to have belt-driven air pumps, often called "smog pumps" whose purpose was to pump air into the exhaust headers just after the exhaust valves in order to help burn off any unburned fuel that made it out of the cylinders. This was a ploy to help reduce unburned hydrocarbon emissions in the days before fuel injection came around.
The advent of FI and oxygen sensors eliminated the need for these kinds of air pumps.
So the fact that this guy thinks your water pump is one of these smog pumps means this guy has no fucking clue what he's looking at and you should not let him work on your van.
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1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
2000 Kawasaki W650 |
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Ahwahnee
Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2010
Posts: 9808
Location: Mt Lemmon, AZ
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| Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 4:13 pm Post subject: Re: Weird Interaction with a mechanic / Is my van dying? |
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You've got your answer but this screen shot from your video tells the tale:
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50348
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| Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 12:08 am Post subject: Re: Weird Interaction with a mechanic / Is my van dying? |
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Even in parts of the country that have zero road salt usage, changing out the water pump can be challenging as the bolts are all but guaranteed to be badly corroded and locked to the block and may well snap off when you try to remove them and this is not an easy place to have to learn about drilling a bolt out.
When going back together, using a low strength Loctite on the bolts can reduce the problems the next time around as it can greatly lessen the corrosion of the threads.
The mechanics at the shop may have just wanted to scare you off so they didn't end up spending a full day replacing the pump and having you upset over the cost, better for them if you just didn't come back. |
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Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22668
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 3:06 am Post subject: Re: Weird Interaction with a mechanic / Is my van dying? |
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It’s about a three hour trip up North to Andrew’s place in Nassau, NY best Albany. I can get you back to Amtrak for the $40 ride home.
Pm me
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32625
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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danfromsyr
Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2004
Posts: 15144
Location: Syracuse, NY
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| Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 5:50 am Post subject: Re: Weird Interaction with a mechanic / Is my van dying? |
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Abscate is referring to Flint European automotive
located here: https://goo.gl/maps/VwbnkoDoCBpcswWM7
Andrew is a good guy, will give honest VW work and will even point out the next item that is on the verge of failure.
of course from Brooklyn anything north of the Tappan Zee is 'upstate'
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| Abscate wrote: |
| These are the reasons we have words like “wanker” |
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Butcher
Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2015
Posts: 1285
Location: Right Here
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| Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 6:35 am Post subject: Re: Weird Interaction with a mechanic / Is my van dying? |
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| These air injection pumps are still used today. No ploy, it just works. |
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brickster
Samba Member
Joined: January 05, 2004
Posts: 512
Location: CO, USA
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| Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 7:07 am Post subject: Re: Weird Interaction with a mechanic / Is my van dying? |
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TBH, I'm not hearing the pulsing idle on the video. I'm not seeing your idle and full throttle switches on the body. Were those removed? If so, where are the wires to the computer?
Can definitely confirm that you must replace the water pump ASAP. I have done the job once, and despite being a very tight space, went smoothly for me. I'm sure if I was a pro, I would have been able to do it much faster with specialty tools. |
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TMWheelock
Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2021
Posts: 18
Location: Brooklyn
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| Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 7:23 am Post subject: Re: Weird Interaction with a mechanic / Is my van dying? |
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| brickster wrote: |
| TBH, I'm not hearing the pulsing idle on the video. I'm not seeing your idle and full throttle switches on the body. Were those removed? If so, where are the wires to the computer? |
From what I understand the 84 had the two switches and they switched to a single switch later on. My van is an 84 according to the VIN but has a lot of aspects of an 85 s which is kind of confusing.
The pulsing idle has gotten better recently.
Here's a video of what is used to do:
Link
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TMWheelock
Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2021
Posts: 18
Location: Brooklyn
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| Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 7:31 am Post subject: Re: Weird Interaction with a mechanic / Is my van dying? |
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| danfromsyr wrote: |
Abscate is referring to Flint European automotive
located here: https://goo.gl/maps/VwbnkoDoCBpcswWM7
Andrew is a good guy, will give honest VW work and will even point out the next item that is on the verge of failure.
of course from Brooklyn anything north of the Tappan Zee is 'upstate' |
Thanks for the link and the confirming that Andrew is indeed a good guy. I'll give them a call. At this point with what seems like imminent failure of my water pump as a concern I'm wondering if it might be prudent to have the van towed to the shop rather than driving it there. Thoughts?
| Abscate wrote: |
It’s about a three hour trip up North to Andrew’s place in Nassau, NY best Albany. I can get you back to Amtrak for the $40 ride home.
Pm me |
Thanks for the rec and the kindness! I'll PM you!
And thanks to everyone who responded. This community really is incredible.
I'm in the consensus that I will never go back to the mechanic in South Brooklyn. Weirdly enough he has ok reviews on RoadHaus...
I drove the van around the block today to re-park it. Now that I know what the grinding sound is moving the old girl makes me paranoid. As they say ignorance is bliss. I am however glad to no longer be ignorant. |
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dobryan
Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 16504
Location: Brookeville, MD
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TMWheelock
Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2021
Posts: 18
Location: Brooklyn
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| Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 7:45 am Post subject: Re: Weird Interaction with a mechanic / Is my van dying? |
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Just got off the phone with Andrew at Flint Automotive.
He's sounds like a really nice and knowledgeable guy!
Thanks again for recommending him!
I'm going to get the van towed up to his shop and have the water pump replaced. |
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sjbartnik
Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2011
Posts: 5998
Location: Brooklyn
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| Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:27 pm Post subject: Re: Weird Interaction with a mechanic / Is my van dying? |
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| Butcher wrote: |
| These air injection pumps are still used today. No ploy, it just works. |
I didn't mean ploy in any negative connotation way; it was the automakers reacting to new stricter emissions rules and yes they do indeed work (though they make the header temps crazy high).
If a modern vehicle has secondary air injection, it won't be an engine-driven pump anymore but electric. And due to tighter mixture controls thanks to modern EFI they aren't plugging away all the time but rather only when needed.
The mid-70's versions were rather crude by comparison. 
I think the only air-cooled VW that ever got a smog pump was the '73-'74 Bus with dual carbs. Talk about a vehicle that absolutely did not need higher exhaust/head temps 
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1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
2000 Kawasaki W650 |
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Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22668
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2021 3:59 am Post subject: Re: Weird Interaction with a mechanic / Is my van dying? |
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| TMWheelock wrote: |
Just got off the phone with Andrew at Flint Automotive.
He's sounds like a really nice and knowledgeable guy!
Thanks again for recommending him!
I'm going to get the van towed up to his shop and have the water pump replaced. |
Save the tow amd drive it. Be aware and watch the coolant level and gauge. If you coordinate with me, worst case I can come down and dolly you here once you leave the fiveBoroughs.
The Taconic would be my preferred route
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VicVan
Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2015
Posts: 1845
Location: Vancouver Island, BC
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| Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2021 8:59 am Post subject: Re: Weird Interaction with a mechanic / Is my van dying? |
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Watch your battery warning light as well. When the water pump breaks, the belt will get loose, and it's also the belt to the alternator. So an alternator wanting light will mean that your engine is no longer cooled. 20 seconds to park and stop the engine.
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'90 Little Blue Truck, 2WD auto, FAS GenV 2.0 NA (AVH) |
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16879
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:10 am Post subject: Re: Weird Interaction with a mechanic / Is my van dying? |
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| Abscate wrote: |
Save the tow amd drive it. |
with a water pump pulley listing 20* no fucking way would i drive it that far. every revolution of that pump is shredding the internals and pumping glitter into the cooling system.
that belt is going to launch and it's game over.
i have a formula i use on customers that refuse to tow something.... it's about 1k per mile in repairs if they continue driving when whatever was initially wrong goes POP.
this was the last leaky water pump i had and they refused a tow
ca-ching
seriously, get it towed
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my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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